Capacitors???
- Thread starter jalguitarman
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Gtrjunior
Well-known member
Capacitors???
On the 250k pot change. I suppose it al depends on many factors wether it will muddy up the tone.
I have a LP Standard that originally had 500K pots, 50’s wiring, .022 orange drops. I play a Splawn Quickrod. There was this sort of high end frequency that bothered me and I couldn’t get rid of it.
I swapped the pickups for a Super Distortion/ PAF 36th set. But the frequency was still there.
One day I was playing my HSS Strat and it sounded so warm and just perfect. Then it dawned on me that, that guitar has a 250K volume pot.
So I put them in my LP...boom! Fixed.
Obviously there is a difference in the pot values with regard to the tone but IMO, not as drastic as you may expect. Plus pots are dirt cheap....totally worth trying it out.
The LP sounds glorious.
On the 250k pot change. I suppose it al depends on many factors wether it will muddy up the tone.
I have a LP Standard that originally had 500K pots, 50’s wiring, .022 orange drops. I play a Splawn Quickrod. There was this sort of high end frequency that bothered me and I couldn’t get rid of it.
I swapped the pickups for a Super Distortion/ PAF 36th set. But the frequency was still there.
One day I was playing my HSS Strat and it sounded so warm and just perfect. Then it dawned on me that, that guitar has a 250K volume pot.
So I put them in my LP...boom! Fixed.
Obviously there is a difference in the pot values with regard to the tone but IMO, not as drastic as you may expect. Plus pots are dirt cheap....totally worth trying it out.
The LP sounds glorious.
Gtrjunior
Well-known member
Capacitors???
Why wouldn’t you try this...it’s about $5? Instead you’d rather rewire your guitar and change tone caps?
Plus you never answered the question from a few posts back about wether you are running the tone pots on 10 and hearing the brittle high end.
If the tone pot is wide open a different value cap won’t make a difference.
Why wouldn’t you try this...it’s about $5? Instead you’d rather rewire your guitar and change tone caps?
Plus you never answered the question from a few posts back about wether you are running the tone pots on 10 and hearing the brittle high end.
If the tone pot is wide open a different value cap won’t make a difference.
jalguitarman
Junior Member
Re: Capacitors???
Yes it is with the tone wide open that I am hearing the overly bright tone. I have tried rolling off the tone it just seems like I have to roll an excessive amount of it off the really tame the brightness.
Gtrjunior
Well-known member
Re: Capacitors???
Well, at the end of the day the decision is yours as to what you want to experiment with on your guitar. For me the answer was a 250k volume pot. What you are experiencing sounds exactly like what I was.
I always thought 500k was a no-go for a humbucker but like I said, for me it was perfect. These are the ones I used. Of course I needed he long shaft version for the Les Paul.
http://guitarelectronics.com/cts-250k-audio-taper-pro-guitar-pot-w-brass-shaft/
They also have them with a treble bleed built in for about $15.
Well, at the end of the day the decision is yours as to what you want to experiment with on your guitar. For me the answer was a 250k volume pot. What you are experiencing sounds exactly like what I was.
I always thought 500k was a no-go for a humbucker but like I said, for me it was perfect. These are the ones I used. Of course I needed he long shaft version for the Les Paul.
http://guitarelectronics.com/cts-250k-audio-taper-pro-guitar-pot-w-brass-shaft/
They also have them with a treble bleed built in for about $15.
jalguitarman
Junior Member
Re: Capacitors???
I do appreciate your input. Well and in this case we are talking about an ES Les Paul so it's more like and ES 335 in construction. The center block is actually very narrow. Basically it sounds nothing like a Les Paul and likely there is no way it could. Which may indeed be why a 250k pot might be the answer. I will have to talk to my tech. I just don't want to mess around and end up with the opposite problem but I guess without trying things there is not way of knowing what is needed. More so in the bridge. The neck sounds like a brighter version of an Allman Brothers sort of tone to some degree, and while a slight bit of added warmth might be good I don't want to do anything extreme with that set of controls. I could see changing the cap value on that but not the pot. But what you say makes sense. And I once had s Strat with a Humbucker in the bridge position so I get it. Thank you.
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Re: Capacitors???
I agree with PF Darkside that choosing pots and caps is a very personal process that takes some experimentation. If you want to stick with 500k pots, I recommend a linear taper volume pot with the input and tone connected to the middle lug and the output connected to the left lug. This is modern wiring that draws out the taper long so you can darken your tone by turning down without losing too much volume. For the tone you could increase your cap values like Jacew said and also use audio taper because they turn down more quickly. There are also 300k pots.
I agree with PF Darkside that choosing pots and caps is a very personal process that takes some experimentation. If you want to stick with 500k pots, I recommend a linear taper volume pot with the input and tone connected to the middle lug and the output connected to the left lug. This is modern wiring that draws out the taper long so you can darken your tone by turning down without losing too much volume. For the tone you could increase your cap values like Jacew said and also use audio taper because they turn down more quickly. There are also 300k pots.
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Jacew
New member
Re: Capacitors???
You have that completely backwards.
Changing tone cap is possibly the simplest wiring mod you can do. However switching pot does require pretty much rewiring your guitar.
it also does make effect with tone wide open.
You have that completely backwards.
Changing tone cap is possibly the simplest wiring mod you can do. However switching pot does require pretty much rewiring your guitar.
it also does make effect with tone wide open.
Gtrjunior
Well-known member
Capacitors???
Well, there is some debate about that. Some say that when the tone knob is wide open the cap is essentially out of the circuit while others say because it is in the circuit it will cause a tonal difference.
I’m sure that it would make “some” tonal difference but the question is wether or not it’s really all that perceivable.
I take the stance that when the tone is wide open the cap is basically out of the circuit.
I haven’t seen enough proof that a different cap in a wide open circuit makes enough of a difference. (I haven’t really searched out an experiment either, so...)
Plus, based on the OP’s description of the issues he is having, I don’t believe the solution lies in the tone cap.
A250K pot will darken the tone a bit, I don’t think your use of the word muddy earlier is accurate. At least not in my experience.
Well, there is some debate about that. Some say that when the tone knob is wide open the cap is essentially out of the circuit while others say because it is in the circuit it will cause a tonal difference.
I’m sure that it would make “some” tonal difference but the question is wether or not it’s really all that perceivable.
I take the stance that when the tone is wide open the cap is basically out of the circuit.
I haven’t seen enough proof that a different cap in a wide open circuit makes enough of a difference. (I haven’t really searched out an experiment either, so...)
Plus, based on the OP’s description of the issues he is having, I don’t believe the solution lies in the tone cap.
A250K pot will darken the tone a bit, I don’t think your use of the word muddy earlier is accurate. At least not in my experience.
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Lewguitar
New member
Re: Capacitors???
Most of my guitars have only a master volume and master tone. My Teles, my Strats and my PRS guitars.
I rarely use the tone control on the neck pickup. Never use it on the neck pickup of my Teles...those vintage style covered Tele neck pickups sound dull enough already.
So I’ll connect the tone control directly to the bridge pickup where it solders onto the selector switch.
That way I can leave it set to the sweet spot that I prefer with the bridge pickup. Usually about 1/3 turned down which for a 500k pot will set the pot at about 200 - 250k.
I’ve been using .02 tone caps for about 20 years on all of my electric guitars.
Most of my guitars have only a master volume and master tone. My Teles, my Strats and my PRS guitars.
I rarely use the tone control on the neck pickup. Never use it on the neck pickup of my Teles...those vintage style covered Tele neck pickups sound dull enough already.
So I’ll connect the tone control directly to the bridge pickup where it solders onto the selector switch.
That way I can leave it set to the sweet spot that I prefer with the bridge pickup. Usually about 1/3 turned down which for a 500k pot will set the pot at about 200 - 250k.
I’ve been using .02 tone caps for about 20 years on all of my electric guitars.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Capacitors???
So you have changed everything in the electrics of the guitar and you aren't happy?
A cap change is barely gonna make a difference and even then the only difference will be in your head unless you change the values of the caps. Even then, you'll only notice a difference when you roll the tones back. Any decent quality cap is gonna sound indistinguishable from another of the same value.
I reckon you should just leave the whole thing as it is, or if you really feel the need, change the caps to .022 like most humbucker equipped axes, or swap it to modern wiring. WHen everything is on 10 tho, there is not much difference between 50s and modern. The only difference is that with modern wiring, you get a slight treble roll off when you back off the volume, and with 50s wiring you dont, but you also get a slight volume roll off when you roll back the tone.
There really comes a point where obsessing over the small details is just a diversion from doing the important stuff (like practicing).
If the axe is now twangy, then it is twangy. Twangy is great. Explore the new palette at your disposal. Stick with it for a few months at least.
So you have changed everything in the electrics of the guitar and you aren't happy?
A cap change is barely gonna make a difference and even then the only difference will be in your head unless you change the values of the caps. Even then, you'll only notice a difference when you roll the tones back. Any decent quality cap is gonna sound indistinguishable from another of the same value.
I reckon you should just leave the whole thing as it is, or if you really feel the need, change the caps to .022 like most humbucker equipped axes, or swap it to modern wiring. WHen everything is on 10 tho, there is not much difference between 50s and modern. The only difference is that with modern wiring, you get a slight treble roll off when you back off the volume, and with 50s wiring you dont, but you also get a slight volume roll off when you roll back the tone.
There really comes a point where obsessing over the small details is just a diversion from doing the important stuff (like practicing).
If the axe is now twangy, then it is twangy. Twangy is great. Explore the new palette at your disposal. Stick with it for a few months at least.
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YeRedHouseOverYonder
New member
Re: Capacitors???
Dramatic, no. Subtle, maybe. It's up for your wallet to decide. If you want repro caps, try Luxe. I hear a wee bit more warmth with PIO caps, but that's me. Tone is subjective. Plus, all this would be moot once the band kicks in.
I usually use $6 mojotone PIOs for vintage style pickups and I use Orange Drops for more modern setups.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
Dramatic, no. Subtle, maybe. It's up for your wallet to decide. If you want repro caps, try Luxe. I hear a wee bit more warmth with PIO caps, but that's me. Tone is subjective. Plus, all this would be moot once the band kicks in.
I usually use $6 mojotone PIOs for vintage style pickups and I use Orange Drops for more modern setups.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
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Jacew
New member
Re: Capacitors???
Well, how much tone circuit will affect the tone wide open depends on the rest of the circuit of you rig, including amp and speakers.
But unless you have no load pot there, it will always have some effect. Especially with single coils, you'll notice tone circuit to be crucial for good tone, because even full open, it cuts that nasal peak of them lower.
Same thing with volume, whether it gets muddy depends on the whole rig and setup. But I see the lowering the volume pot value as a last resort, if you can't get it in control other way. It bleeds out a lot of character of you pickups in uncontrollable way. You can't modify the effect it makes to your tone, like you can with tone circuit.
Well, how much tone circuit will affect the tone wide open depends on the rest of the circuit of you rig, including amp and speakers.
But unless you have no load pot there, it will always have some effect. Especially with single coils, you'll notice tone circuit to be crucial for good tone, because even full open, it cuts that nasal peak of them lower.
Same thing with volume, whether it gets muddy depends on the whole rig and setup. But I see the lowering the volume pot value as a last resort, if you can't get it in control other way. It bleeds out a lot of character of you pickups in uncontrollable way. You can't modify the effect it makes to your tone, like you can with tone circuit.
YeRedHouseOverYonder
New member
Re: Capacitors???
I originally glossed over a lot details. Should have read through. It honestly sounds like you should: a) change to modern wiring, b) change the pot value to 250-300k, or c) change pickups. Pretty much what most have echoed already.
Edit: If you're stuck on the black beauties, go Luxe.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
I originally glossed over a lot details. Should have read through. It honestly sounds like you should: a) change to modern wiring, b) change the pot value to 250-300k, or c) change pickups. Pretty much what most have echoed already.
Edit: If you're stuck on the black beauties, go Luxe.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
