Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

[hydro]

I bought one, mainly because it did one octave down and two octaves down.

Pedal is pretty cool in theory but it tracks kind of rough, does not like buffered pedals in front of it, the fuzz is really aggressive and the gate seems to be really grainy and overly sensitive.

When you get it going it sounds great, but you have to roll off a lot of volume and almost all the tone, neck pickup much better. It is just a little too wild, overall.

So here's my question, as I decided after a recent session to ebay this pedal (been on the fence about it)

What is the best sub-octave out there? MXR blue box? Something else? I have thought about the EHX pog but I'm not sure I want something that fancy. I think what I want is what I have now, but more predictable and less wacky.

 

[erksin]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

Any octave fuzz will track better if you remove additional harmonics and boost the fundamental by rolling off your guitar's Tone control. We have at least a dozen plus from various eras and makes and they all require that aspect of technique to do their thing to their fullest - it's just the nature of the beast.

The same goes for buffered pedals in front - the reason why is that octave fuzzes (and most fuzzes for that matter save for Big Muff styles) are extremely input impedance sensitive. You will get a MUCH wider range of tones out of any octave fuzz by putting it first in line after the pickups.

So if you want more predictability from any octave fuzz (Blue Box included - we have one of those as well) you'll want to use your neck pickup, roll off the Tone control, and make sure there's no buffers in front of it.

Another trick is if you are running a 2 pickup guitar with separate Tone controls for each pickup is to roll off the Tone for the neck pickup only and use both pickups. You'll get a strong sub-harmonic fundamental with the neck pup with a little bit of top end rip from the bridge. Less predictable, but what's the fun in predictability when it comes to fuzz..?

 

[hydro]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

Yeah, I guess I was hoping that someone had solved the intrinsic technical limitations of these types of pedals. I do get much better results with the approach you describe, but it makes it somewhat impractical outside the studio... especially for a guy like me who really doesn't use his tone controls much.

I am going for synth-like/string like swells, so I am trying to combine it with other effects like a vol. pedal and envelope filter. In this context I want a more well-behaved pedal, but maybe I am expecting too much.

One of the trickiest things I have had to deal with as a guitar player is trying to balance all these awesome tones and combinations with practical gigging and band situations. I am sure I am not alone. Sometimes I want to simplify and go with a couple of big, obvious kick-you-in-the-nutz effects; other times I want the whole range of modulation, delay, different fuzz flavors; lots of flexibility, etc.

This begs the larger question --- what effects are *really* worth it, when you are playing live?

To me, wah, fuzz/overdrive and delay (and maybe something super obvious like an octave pedal) are the only things that *might* translate live in a heavy rock band. Chorus, phase, reverb... in the studio sure, but live - especially in a band with a lot of guitars and stuff going on like mine - are they even worth having on your board, or having to tap dance and choreograph switching on and off?

I dunno. I get wrapped around the axle with gear sometimes. Are pedals just a distraction from playing?

Thanks btw for your advice; very helpful. sorry for getting all philosophical...

 

[jeremy]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

pedals can totally be a distraction from playing. i have one band im playing with that i use a 12w 1x12 combo cranked up and a fender reverb unit. thats it. tokai strat->30' surf green coil bullet cable->fender reverb->18" pos cable->amp. i can cover lots of ground and it sounds awesome.

the most ive used on a gig in the past year is a red dot sunface fuzz, timmy od, and deja vu delay. never feel like i need more than that. dont get me wrong i have a **** ton of other pedals and a big ass board but i never use it. its cool to have fun gear, like a rotosphere thru two amps is ****in epic but its also a lot of work to haul two amps to a gig and the big ass pedal board and im lazy lol, but the playing is more important by a long shot. if you can do it with a simple rig then you can really do it.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

I use a Micro POG for octave down stuff, and stack it with a fuzz if I want it fuzzy

 

[jeremy]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

oh and for octave down stuff i use a boss OC2

 

[zenmindbeginner]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

I've been searching for the ultimate guitar synth all of my life... never wanted to do the MIDI thing and looked high and low for a decent voltage controlled device to no real avail.

Octave fuzz type of pedals don't work that great with the volume knob. They tell where you are at pitch-wise due to your voltage... take away the voltage and you take away the unit's ability to track properly. They do have a sweet spot though... you must have found it.

I have no idea if the Perseus is operates like I previously mentioned but it must be said that octave fuzzes are the hardest effect to work with in the entire universe... there is no effect pedal that gets returned more often to the music store.

 

[hydro]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

Well in theory an octave fuzz + volume modulation (tremolo or vol pedal) + envelope filter; in that order - will give you this big goofy ARP type fat synth sound. But this always seems to work better in "the lab" than live... heh.

EHX has a bunch of pedals that do stuff like this, but I have come to view EHX as the slippery slope to pedaladdiction. Great pedals but their high end stuff is really for the studio tweaker. I can't imagine how I could really apply a Micro Synth or a POG2 to a live situation unless I had 4 hands.

I have some limited experience with old analog synths (Moog Opus 3 for example) and getting that thing to behave itself was a full time job. Gives me an appreciation for Wakeman and Eno and other early synth pioneers. Getting analog synth sounds from a guitar seems like it has similar challenges.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

I've totally nailed synthy sounds via a fuzz (octavia or ff) into a univibe then envelope filter... 2am noise fest.

 

[James Rock]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

Using something like a micro pog or pog 2 with a seperate fuzz pedal would alleviate most of the problems with octave fuzzes as the POG stuff tracks well and then you can use whatever fuzz tone works with that octave pedal. Its a different sound but with more control.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

I recently picked up an Earthquaker Organizer. It isn't a distortion, but it does octave up/down with *really* good tracking. I'm playing around with feeding that into a distortion to approximate the Blue Box sound.

I own several "guitar synth" pedals, but really don't use any of the others regularly due to tracking issues.

EDIT: I also will second the comments about getting these pedals to track well. I run anything like this early in the pedal chain - usually only have a clean boost in front of them. I put distortion after the octaviser, as the added frequency content of the distorted signal will completely befuddle the tracking otherwise. Rolling off the highs at the guitar and using the neck pickup are also common tips for better synth tracking.

 

[erksin]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

This begs the larger question --- what effects are *really* worth it, when you are playing live?

The ones that help you get the jobs done that need doing in the simplest manner possible.

Even though I help make pedals for a living, I only use maybe 3-4 tops with a band and rarely if ever adjust them while playing. I'm a set and forget kinda guy - if I'm having to tweak anything other than the controls on my guitar that pedal is a distraction to me and it won't last long.

Ever jam with somebody who has a massive board and is constantly tweaking knobs? I hate those guys. lol

 

[Aceman]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

The question is not which pedals are worth it live - the question is which pedals give you the live sound you need.

Steve Stevens - it was a frickin' boatload. Same with Eric Johnson.

Zakk seemed to think a Boss CS-1, Dunlp Wah, and an MXR dirt box did it.

Ace Frehley generally used none.

Up to you and the song.....

 

[hydro]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

My band is all over the place with sounds. Psych, garage, punk, space rock, stoner, swamp metal... I aim to have the most versatile rig possible, but at the same time keep it simple.

But I am by far the most conventional guitar player in my band. Makes me think sometimes I should just ditch the fx completely and let the other guys do the freak out stuff.

But I'll never give up my wah pedal...lol

 

[Aceman]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

My band is all over the place with sounds. Psych, garage, punk, space rock, stoner, swamp metal... I aim to have the most versatile rig possible, but at the same time keep it simple.

Multi FX unit

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

The Perseus is not a million miles away from the old MXR Blue Box octave divider pedal. Same concept. Same issues.

It occurs to me that the Perseus pedal would be one example where the dual output socket system of the BB King Lucille would be advantageous. The signal from the neck pickup with the tone control rolled down to 0 could feed the pedal whilst the signal from the bridge pickup runs to the amp as normal. Combining the two signals creates the overall effect.

The Roland/Boss GK pedals might answer the tracking issue - at a price!

 

[hydro]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

Yeah that is interesting, if you could drive the octave off a different signal. I wonder if a splitter with something rolling off the tone would work the same way.

I may just keep the Perseus for studio use. I can get it to do some cool stuff but it just takes a lot of tweaking.

Ace, I have sometimes considered a multi effects unit. But I suppose that now I have invested a lot of time and dough in my pedalboard, and overall I am pretty happy with it. What is hard to avoid is the constant tweeking and fiddling and dorking around. It's fun but it kinda drives me nuts at the same time. And then you always think, man maybe this other pedal will be even better...and you end up redesigning the whole thing...

It seems to always come down to the essential struggle between what is possible and what is reasonable...

 

[hydro]

Re: Catalinbread Perseus - hmmmm...

like a rotosphere thru two amps is ****in epic but its also a lot of work to haul two amps to a gig and the big ass pedal board and im lazy lol, but the playing is more important by a long shot. if you can do it with a simple rig then you can really do it.

I now have enough gear that I could run in stereo, with a stereo TC flashback AND a stereo phaser. But if I didn't kill myself hauling all that gear, my bandmates would finish the job!!