Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

[fretburner]

Can I pair a G12-65 (15ohms) with a WGS Veteran 30 (16ohms) without any issues?

I'm concerned about the loudness of the Vet30 versus the G12-65. The 1-ohm difference should be a problem right? The Vet30 is supposed be 98.74db while the G12-65 is at 97db. Of course, we don't know how they got those values.

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

No problem. Should do fine and preform great.

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

Can I pair a G12-65 (15ohms) with a WGS Veteran 30 (16ohms) without any issues?

I'm concerned about the loudness of the Vet30 versus the G12-65. The 1-ohm difference should be a problem right? The Vet30 is supposed be 98.74db while the G12-65 is at 97db. Of course, we don't know how they got those values.

A 15 ohm speaker impedance is so unusual to me that I went to the Celestion website to verify, and yep, that's what it said. Regardless, it should pose no problem since actual impedance varies with frequency anyway.

When pairing speakers, I prefer to keep them within 2 db sensitivity (which this pairing is), but preferrably within 1 db (which the pair is not). As you've suggested, different mfg.'s may rate the sensitivity differently, so I couldn't predict for sure whether there'd be a noticeable volume imballance. I have paired a Retro and Reaper together in a 2X12 cab and the difference is .56 db sensitivity. This isn't noticeable to my ears.

Do you already own one or both of them?

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I won't get my G12-65s until a couple of months...

The JCM800 combo had re-coned G12-65s before I swapped them out for WGS Veteran 30s. Since I have a new 2x12 closed back cab, I dropped the old re-coned -65s in it and they sounded weak and muffled compared to the Vet30s. I also tried my Lil Night Train with it versus a 1x12 cab with G12T-75s (then switched to the 2x12) and it was again, relatively weak and muffled.

 

[CTN]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I have a pair of G12-65s with a pair of WGS Retro30s in my 4x12, and they sound fantastic together.

with the Vet30+G12-65, you should have a fat, punchy but still articulate sounding cab. The Retro30 is supposed to be crisper, brighter and more chimey than the Vet 30, but still a pretty similar bass and midrange voicing.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

Celestion used to label their speakers as 15 ohm in the old days, then changed them to the conventional 16 ohms rating at some point in time. The speakers didn't actually change, just the rating.

Al

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I have a pair of G12-65s with a pair of WGS Retro30s in my 4x12, and they sound fantastic together.

with the Vet30+G12-65, you should have a fat, punchy but still articulate sounding cab. The Retro30 is supposed to be crisper, brighter and more chimey than the Vet 30, but still a pretty similar bass and midrange voicing.

The Vet 30 is already a little too bright for my tastes, so I guess the combination with the G12-65s is only going to help I do love it's mid range and the sizzle on top. Awesome speakers especially cranked!

It's good to know the Retro 30 is matching up with - loudness wise - with the G12-65s. Upon checking the WGS website, they have about the same SPL with the Vet 30s.

 

[CTN]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

well it doesn't quite match up volume wise. G12-65s are rated at 96 or 97 db sensitivity and the Retro30s (and Vet30s) are 99 or 100 db. You'll tend to hear more of the Vet30/Retro30 in the mix, but the G12-65 does add its own punch and smoothness and fills out the sound of the WGS. It's just that the G12-65 isn't front and center, whereas the Vet30/Retro30 would be.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I guess this would be an issue for a 2x12 but not as much for a 4x12?

 

[CTN]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I don't find it to be too much of an issue in my 412. I really like the sound of the Retro30s so the fact that they are the dominant sound is fine by me. If you're not a big fan of the Vet30's sound then maybe consider getting one of the other WGS speakers. WGS recommended the Reaper or Reaper HP as a good pairing with the G12-65 when I asked them about it.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I don't find it to be too much of an issue in my 412. I really like the sound of the Retro30s so the fact that they are the dominant sound is fine by me. If you're not a big fan of the Vet30's sound then maybe consider getting one of the other WGS speakers. WGS recommended the Reaper or Reaper HP as a good pairing with the G12-65 when I asked them about it.

No, I LOVE the sound of the Veteran 30s! I just want it to balance well.

I actually don't know what to expect if I mixed the speakers in a 2x12. But WGS recommends mixing their Vet30 and ET65s to get a "best of both worlds" kinda thing. I guess I will just have to try it with 2xG12-65s vs G12-65+Vet30.

 

[CTN]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

in that case go for it. couldn't hurt.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

My other option of course is to just stick with 2x G12-65s on my JCM800 combo, and stick my 2x Veteran 30s in my 2x12 closed back cab. The inherent brightness of the Veteran 30s should be good for closed back cabs.

 

[CTN]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

if you're talking about the oversized 2x12 from your other thread, yeah I'd put the Vet30s in there. the extra space in the cab should give them a slightly bigger bass response and smooth out the brightness.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

Yes. I originally wanted my old G12-65s re-coned with an OEM kit, but I got a VERY good deal on bnew speakers, so I went for it. The reason for going G12-65s was to get my amp back to its original "condition". I got my Veteran 30s over a year ago because I could NOT justify buying Celestions (too pricey). I'm very happy with Veteran 30s! The brightness though was a bit of a surprise, if not shocking. The JCM800 is already a bright amp, and the Veteran 30s just added more to that brightness.

 

[Hurricane]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

Can I pair a G12-65 (15ohms) with a WGS Veteran 30 (16ohms) without any issues?

I'm concerned about the loudness of the Vet30 versus the G12-65. The 1-ohm difference should be a problem right? The Vet30 is supposed be 98.74db while the G12-65 is at 97db. Of course, we don't know how they got those values.

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Fret Burner :

1st : They stand off a really super expensive mic about a meter / 3 ft. in front of a speaker(s) mounted in their respective cabinet(s) .

2nd : They use a calibrated tone generator and pre amp and power amp to hit it with a series of tones ranging from the lowest sound this speaker can reproduce to it's highest ( the bandwidth of the speaker(s) in question's sound spectrum ) sounds with what it's rated to operate under ( what ever that would be as in a 30 or a 50 or 100 watt speaker ) and use a oscilloscope ( the old school ) to see the sign wave and or a audio to digital interface ( AD ) converter and let a PC / mac do the rest of the calculating to actually see and calculate it's ability to perform under varying sign waves like square wave tones as well as true tones .

3rd: When this is done they take it to the point of [ CLIPPING ] which means when the speaker cone and voice coil reach the point of distorting and sounding bad more or less as well as the good tones it can reproduce .

4th : Then they back off the power ( gain / volume ) to where the speaker sounds good just before the break up and distortion threshold occurs at high volume .This type of procedure is how they ( who or whom ever they are ) do it .

Well buddy , that's about the long and short of the state of the art in testing and rating a transducer(s) ( speaker(s) ) specs .

IMHO the difference of the 1 ohm is negligible as far as causing any issues :33: since any and all speakers change their resistive value ( ohms ) as they are fed power and signal variations as I have learned over the years from really great techs .

What are you plugging these speakers into anyway :dunno: ? A tube amp will/would cruise with this I would imagine . I can't see any issue(s) at all really with SS amps either for that matter .

Bottom line is what it sounds like to you once put together . You like it or you don't .

Good luck :

Hurricane Ramon

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

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Well buddy , that's about the long and short of the state of the art in testing and rating a transducer(s) ( speaker(s) ) specs .

Are you describing Celestion's or WGS' method?

What are you plugging these speakers into anyway :dunno: ? A tube amp will/would cruise with this I would imagine . I can't see any issue(s) at all really with SS amps either for that matter .

It would go into an early 80's JCM800 4104. The original speakers were G12-65s.

 

[Hurricane]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

Are you describing Celestion's or WGS' method?

It would go into an early 80's JCM800 4104. The original speakers were G12-65s.

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Fret Burner :

This is a standard way that the industry rates a speaker's specs and performance . Been done this way long before I was born and that goes back to 1950

Yep shouldn't be an issue with your Marshall amp at all .

Speakers are one of the few things a person can easily configure and build to one's personal tastes .

They are the biggest rip off too in the game of sales room sales men .

I have been customizing speakers ( making my own cabs and choosing the speakers to go in them for home theater and P . A .s ) to my hearts content since the late 60s . Lately I have made mini's for my P . Cs . / Macs with really cool state of the art stuff for my monitors .

Easy Blood :

HR

 

[fretburner]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I wouldn't call them a total ripoff considering metal prices in past half decade or so, although I don't think those heritage speakers would really amount to 200+ USD. But then again, the brand usually really skews up prices (think Apple iPhones). Good thing I had a really good deal with mine that I feel really good about it.

I hope there was a published ASTM standard of some sort on getting the SPL, including mic used, cabinet size and materials, room size and acoustic materials, etc... for a truly apples to apples comparison for manufacturer published speaker specs.

 

[Hurricane]

Re: Celestion AND WGS in my 2x12 Combo

I wouldn't call them a total ripoff considering metal prices in past half decade or so, although I don't think those heritage speakers would really amount to 200+ USD. But then again, the brand usually really skews up prices (think Apple iPhones). Good thing I had a really good deal with mine that I feel really good about it.

I hope there was a published ASTM standard of some sort on getting the SPL, including mic used, cabinet size and materials, room size and acoustic materials, etc... for a truly apples to apples comparison for manufacturer published speaker specs.

=============

I meant a rip off in regard to off the shelf Phillips and Braun and other raw drivers compared to a named brand finished speaker cabs that is/are very expensive albeit good quality .

Same thing applies to any speaker and who/whom ever sells it . You can get really good empty cabs and raw drivers that can sound as good or better for less .

With the added satisfaction of knowing it's your own design as well as tone I tend to lean this way I guess , so kick in the money I kept in my pocket on top of this and I am sold lock stock and barrel on making my own and or modification of anything I get .

I put together my big P . A .'s speaker system's drivers consisting of Peavy woofers & Altec Lansing horns for just one example .

Peace man :

HR