Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

[Lux84]

It is finally there. with some mods: fx loop, more gain mod, half switch power.

first immpresions..

it's loud as hell. i had tried it, play it for around three hours, yesterday and today.

i plugged my guitars into a high sensitivity input, and then in low sensitivity output too. i played a lot of diffferent stuff. i opened it 2 to 4 out of 11. throgh Vintage30/G12T75 combination of speakers.

the low sensitivity output have less volume, is that normal ?

now i look for some attenuator, because the think is bloody loud, it just screams too much, if i put the treble and presence up. must try it at band situation, i think it's gonna sounds fine with those speakers, but the 75's need some time to break in. however if i play on gain around half it sounds very cool, but when i opened the gain full and add a boost pedal it seems that the thing has enough amount of gain for metal, but it starts lacks bottom end. it becomes more trebley. i have it set this way: treble at 2 to 4, presence 2 to 4, bass on full, middle at 5-6, volume at 2 to 4, and with Les Paul ( SH5 Custom bridge) it sounds better than with SG ( SH6 Distortion bridge). more bass from Les Paul, better sound at hi gain.

For now i am gonna leave the speakers alone, but i have already one G12H30 to combine with Vintage 30... i am gonna try it. the amp i run on half power setting ( 25 watts ) .

And i have already good results with Classic Strat Singlecoils, good for that Zeppelin, Deep Purple sound. it seems the amp sounds more warm and full when the gain is on medium ( classic rock sound ), but then when i boost gain to full it becomes slightly louder, good palm mutes sound for thrash, but there is a lack of low end, and it sound a bit harsh. i have to use the noise gate, when the gain is on full and boosted with OD pedal. but it seems, that the sustain is already here, for exaple when i hit the noise gate on Blackstar HT-5 it almostly eat all of the sustain, but there with JCM 800, when the noise gate is on, still the sound is full on sustain and also more quiet.

Must buy an attenuator, to tweak a little more, with better results. and
i think i am gonna get more vintage tone if i put some of H30's in a cab, must try it one day.

Vintage 30's are definately the keepers in a cab, but i think the 75's are a bit problem, so i am gonna change it for two H30 to see if i can get more vintage tone with them.

And, maybe the 4 Vintage 30's in a cab are the answer for all of the musical styles i play, i don't know yet.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

I would try a volume pedal or an EQ pedal in the loop to attenuate the volume before I would spend the money on an attenuator. I run an EQ in the loop of my Splawn and it works quite well.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

So, finnaly i almost crank it all up. on 50 w setting, i set the volume up to about 8 of 11. i stay one room away from it. i run only left side of the 4x12 cab, one Vintage 30 at top and one G12T75 on bottom. so, 2x12.. i can say that the amp has more than enough gain for metal, for Iron Maiden stuff i've just turn the gain knob at full ( and set the SH5 Custom pickup volume at 7 of 10 ) no boost, nothing, and i could play Trooper. than i run Bad Monkey at classic setting and it turns out to more modern stuff, like Orion by Metallica, and Mouth For War by Pantera. still the volume of SH5 pickup was set on 7 of 10. That pickup just bland with the amp so nicely, for metal, for hard classic rock beautiful. And i forgot, as i was crank the amp up, more bottom end was coming. Still not perfect, but wooow, what a sound ! i was playing riffs... but solos are a bit ice picky up to 20 fret.. what would you reccomend me for solos ? i have two boost pedals, Bad Monkey and Boss SD-1 Monte Allumns Mod. still settings was 2 treble, 2 presence, bass 10, middle 6.
( the tone settings are from 0 to 11 )

I think i am slowly falling in love with that JCM

And i am home alone today, so i could crank it that much

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

An EQ pedal to cut the highs would probably be a good idea. Have you tried rolling back the tone control on your guitar as well?

The Custom is a darker-toned pickup than the Distortion, so if you put a Custom in your SG, it would sound darker like the LP.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

So, an Eq pedal for solos ? i have roll back a little, with neck pickup things get better, but it eats some gain. yes, the Custom i think is better choice than Distortion. i am even thinking to put SH4 JB in SG. where to put an Equalizator, in front of amp, or in efx loop ? i have active efx loop. the speakers are new, i have play through those speakers for 4 or 5 hours and that is. is it the G12T75 that pronounces annoying high frequences, because they are new ? i feel the Vintage 30's kind of balanced the whole thing.. i started thinking about less treble mod.. would that be a good option, since it is cheaper than to buy new or used Eq.. ? weill, i am incredibly happy to have that 50 watt amp somehow hot roded, it has enough gain for what i am after, and it has good sound for classic rock stuff, that i like too so much, besides only metal. my first amp, loud enough for band and different stage situations.. it costs me less than Marshall KK Signature JCM 800, for example. but i wanted to sound as good as possible, for rhythm and solos too. also i can't crank it up every day, just about one time a week, when nobody is home. and it's little irritating for my ears, at those high volumes. with band thing would be different, i buy this amp for a band practice. to start out the band. so, i am working on this

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

Yeah, they're volume monsters, which is why they have a master volume in the first place. My latest amp is a 1984 JCM 800 212 combo, but it's got 4 Tungsol 6550's, making it 150W. That amp could pop speakers if I'm not careful. But, it sounds huge. I have a V30/Creamback 65 in it right now. This amp will be a work in progress, getting it exactly where I want it. I know I can start by removing two tubes and running it at 4ohms.

The 2nd input makes it sound more like a Plexi, but you've got to turn the gain and volume all the way up to compensate for the loss of a gain stage.

I like my amp set at G7-8, V4, T4-5, M6, B7, P5. JCM 800's take pedals better than most amps, but my favorite boost for it is the Barber LTD. The Marshall Gov'nor II works great with it too. And of course, Bogner pedals will turn it into a firebreather. With those, you want to set the amp clean, then use the blue or red as a 2nd and 3rd channel. The Bogner Red is an incredible gain machine, and it's a better purchase than an attenuator because you can turn it down and still retain all the gain and bite.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

So, an Eq pedal for solos ? i have roll back a little, with neck pickup things get better, but it eats some gain. yes, the Custom i think is better choice than Distortion. i am even thinking to put SH4 JB in SG. where to put an Equalizator, in front of amp, or in efx loop ? i have active efx loop. the speakers are new, i have play through those speakers for 4 or 5 hours and that is. is it the G12T75 that pronounces annoying high frequences, because they are new ? i feel the Vintage 30's kind of balanced the whole thing.. i started thinking about less treble mod.. would that be a good option, since it is cheaper than to buy new or used Eq.. ? weill, i am incredibly happy to have that 50 watt amp somehow hot roded, it has enough gain for what i am after, and it has good sound for classic rock stuff, that i like too so much, besides only metal. my first amp, loud enough for band and different stage situations.. it costs me less than Marshall KK Signature JCM 800, for example. but i wanted to sound as good as possible, for rhythm and solos too. also i can't crank it up every day, just about one time a week, when nobody is home. and it's little irritating for my ears, at those high volumes. with band thing would be different, i buy this amp for a band practice. to start out the band. so, i am working on this

No, not an EQ for solos, but to reduce the excess treble. Run it through the loop since that would put it after the gain stages, and would not result in a loss of front-end gain.

Then again, if there's a mod you can do to the amp to reduce the treble, go for it.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

So, finnaly i almost crank it all up. on 50 w setting, i set the volume up to about 8 of 11. i stay one room away from it. i run only left side of the 4x12 cab, one Vintage 30 at top and one G12T75 on bottom. so, 2x12.. i can say that the amp has more than enough gain for metal, for Iron Maiden stuff i've just turn the gain knob at full ( and set the SH5 Custom pickup volume at 7 of 10 ) no boost, nothing, and i could play Trooper. than i run Bad Monkey at classic setting and it turns out to more modern stuff, like Orion by Metallica, and Mouth For War by Pantera. still the volume of SH5 pickup was set on 7 of 10. That pickup just bland with the amp so nicely, for metal, for hard classic rock beautiful. And i forgot, as i was crank the amp up, more bottom end was coming. Still not perfect, but wooow, what a sound ! i was playing riffs... but solos are a bit ice picky up to 20 fret.. what would you reccomend me for solos ? i have two boost pedals, Bad Monkey and Boss SD-1 Monte Allumns Mod. still settings was 2 treble, 2 presence, bass 10, middle 6.
( the tone settings are from 0 to 11 )

I think i am slowly falling in love with that JCM

And i am home alone today, so i could crank it that much

What tubes are you using in there? Those EQ settings look like there is too much top end/fizz happening. You don't happen to be using EHX/Tungsol RI/Sovtek W(something)/TAD 7025?
With that amp you may want to look into getting some NOS tubes for the preamp, nothing super rare&expensive. From the current production stuff I think JJECC83S or Mullard RI might suit it better. I have a Laney amp, those are bright & a little along the lines of a Marshall, I can tame the brightness with JJ ECC83S or Mullard RI's, although I mostly uses JJ's cause they are cheaper & last long enough for me.

It's normal for the low input to have less gain hence the drop in volume you notice, in some amps the low input bypasses one gain stage.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

less efficient speakers are good. Those V30s are supremely loud and cutting.
If you get a 3db lower efficiency speaker, you will get a percieved volume drop of half.
Have you tried it thru 4 greenbacks? They are not a particularly bottom heavy speaker, but you can crank your amp a little harder for some extra fatness and you have the closed back cab helping them along too.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

With my Vintage 30/Creamback 65, the V30 definitely overpowers the CB65, but the CB65 has a sweeter more vintage voice.

I keep searching Craigslist for Creamback 65's, Creamback 75's, and G-65 (vintage or new Heritage).
I think those are the speakers I like best with Marshalls where I'm trying to take away the metal edge.
The Creamback 65's are like a Greenback with better bottom end and more wattage handling, but they're so new that they're harder to come by used. I don't want to pay the $170 retail.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

With my Vintage 30/Creamback 65, the V30 definitely overpowers the CB65, but the CB65 has a sweeter more vintage voice.

I keep searching Craigslist for Creamback 65's, Creamback 75's, and G-65 (vintage or new Heritage).
I think those are the speakers I like best with Marshalls where I'm trying to take away the metal edge.
The Creamback 65's are like a Greenback with better bottom end and more wattage handling, but they're so new that they're harder to come by used. I don't want to pay the $170 retail.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/specials and overstock.htm

Click the email link for a price quote? Maybe they're cheaper?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

That sounds pretty *****in'. Congratulations.

Are you impressed with Ceriatone's quality in general? I'm really considering getting one of their Bluesbreaker 2x12 kits at some point in the next year.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

About tubes... there are two JJ EL34 and two JJ 12AX7. there is another tube in V1, for which i ask for it which one is it, and i get the answer that they were put some more powerful 12AX7 tube here, for more gain i guess. i suggested more gain mod before they starts building the amp.

About quality... about the parts, everything is made in Europe, and the amp is handbuilded by luthier. head isn't typical JCM 800 type, it's more i think Vintage looking. like older marshalls which i like a lot ! more vintagey look ! but it's JCM 800 2204 in there.

My Cab is classic 1960 Lead Angled 4x12 Marshall. right now i have an x pattern in it:

Vintage 30 G12T-75

x

G12T-75 Vintage 30 .

The Cab needs a few mods to start sounding the best... the cable circuit which connects speakers all together is pure. need some better cables and connectors, to be replaced.

Besides that, i use Klotz Lagrange guitar cable, and also Klotz cable to connects the head to cab. for pedalboard i use Schulz - Neutrik patch cables from Germany.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

However, i tweak that head and cab little more, to get some warmer sounds for solos.

It seems that when i shut the middle off, and add some gain from pedal, it has less ice picky sound for solos.

But for metal riffing the middle knob has to be increased.

I don't know, but maybe the Vintage 30's are not the speakers to play with that amp for me.

I'll try and wire two G12-75 on the left side, and two G12-75 on right side of the 4x12 cab. that's the way i can try which one are better sounding to me.

I only run the whole 4 speakers together for a two times. it seems that if i only run 2 speakers, the amp has the whole more gain.

I haven't done any of modifications to that 1960 Angled cab, besides i am only changing the speakers in it, to see what combinations are good etc.

I am tweaking the amp more and more, and i started writing down on paper different settings, with different pedals, and speakers, cabs.

I also wanna try just one G12T-75 in my empty Orange 1x12 cab, to push more on it, for breaking in, and there is also one G12H30 to combine with Vintage 30, to see differences between those two. so i got a lot of work, and tweaking to do. i am also thinking of purchasing MXR 10 Band Equalizer, or some kind of Attenuator from time to time.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

I sold all of my Marshalls, including my JCM800's, because they were all to damn loud.

Shoot, even my Deluxe Reverbs are to loud to turn up passed 4 or 5. Usually can't even get away with that.

It's why I started using a Klon.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

The amp I'd still like to try is 18 watt Marshall. It's the only amp I have a little bit of a jones for.

Ceriatone makes a kit for one.

Avatar has a nice one that's already built and ready to rock.

Like to have one some day.

18 - 22 watts or so seems to be about perfect for me and the rooms I play in.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

How does the half switch compare to attenuator or equalizer ? because i have the 50w and 25w option. do i need attenuator or equalizer if i have that ? i think i don't need 4x12, as 2x12 sounds better for me... maybe i am gonna sell the 4x12 cab and get some 2x12 Orange, but i am not completly sure about that.

 

[Lux84]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

So, i have set the 4x12 cab that way:

the left side 2x12 G12T75's and the right side 2x12 Vintage 30 .

now i can compare how the amp sounds with two G12T75's and how it sounds with two Vintage 30's.

i hate opening the cabinets and changing the speakers, but **** it... i must do that to find which speakers i really like and which are the boomers

i will post some video clips soon..

one idea comes to my mind.. to have two 2x12 cabs, one for more vintage tones and the other one for just metal. can i set some wood plate in the middle of the 4x12, to have those two combinations seperated in that cab that i already have ? have someone do that ?

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

I've owned/played quite a few 50w master volume Marshalls including 2204s and, yes, they are bright sounding amps but I've never had to resort to using an EQ pedal to tame the highs.

In my experience G12T-75s don't sound good with these amps. The highs are too harsh and shrill. They have a very uninspiring flat but ice-picky tone. I really like G12H-30s with Marshalls, either alone or combined with Vintage 30s. I would start by exchanging the two G12T-75s for G12H-30s. See how you like the H30/V30 mix. Then consider going to 4 G12H-30s if you find the upper mids from the V30s too much. If you want to cover a mix of classic rock and more modern metal I suspect you may be happy with the H30/V30 mix.

The problem with Vintage 30s and G12H-30s, as gibson175 said, is that being very efficient heavy-magnet speakers they won't solve your volume issue. They are LOUD speakers! So you could look at some of the less-efficient offerings - but not G12T-75s! I have some old G12-65s in a 2104 combo and they are nice but I haven't heard either the Heritage G12-65s or the new G12M-65 Creambacks. The Heritage G12-65s always seem to get great reviews. I've read mixed reviews of the Creambacks, so until there's a chance of picking up a used one at a good price I'm sticking with my tried and trusted G12H-30s and V30s.

Consider this: Is a 4x12 a must-have for you? Changing to a 2x12 would reduce your volume significantly and it's a heck of a lot easier to move. 4x12s sound and look great but they are designed to be loud and are overkill for the majority of modern gigging situations.

Regarding EQ settings, I typically run my 2104 (2204 in a combo) with treble and presence around 2, bass around 7 and mids between 3 and 6 depending on the room. If I want to tame the highs more I roll back the bridge pickup tone control (Les Paul with vintage-style HBs). At a typical gig my bridge tone could be anywhere between 3 and 10 depending on the song. For rhythm playing the guitar volume is backed off slightly as this also warms the tone. When it comes back to 10 for a solo it cuts through the mix more. The amp's characteristic brightness is great for keeping the neck pickup tone clear and defined.

Finally, Marshalls (and their clones...) don't necessarily sound great played alone at home (I usually practice with a Roland Cube 30 instead) but put them in the right band context and suddenly it all makes sense. Mids!!

Good luck.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Ceriatone JCM 800 2204 finnaly at home impresssions

I have gone to G12M Green Back type speakers almost excusively for Marshalls now. First, they are not as loud as V30s or G12H30s. Secondly, they have warmer highs. These factors play well with Marshalls. Run them closed back for tighter, punchier, bottom for rock styles. The G12-65 is a good alternative.

The 1/2 power switch (pentode/triode) idea works okay for reducing loudness for 50 watt amps. For 100 watt amps switching to 50 watts hardly makes a difference loudness wise, but there's a practical difference between 25 watts and 50 watts in loudness. You can run the master a notch or two higher. The sound is different though. Run triode, the tone is rounder and less aggressive. Rockers often hate that. But try it and re-EQ, it might work for you.