Challenge! Wiring Diagram HSH

[PFDarkside]

ArtieToo and the other experienced diagram makers.... I’ve got a challenge for you. Full disclosure, I haven’t sat down and mapped it out on a computer or note pad, I’m just throwing it out as a challenge.

ingredients:
2 Duncan 4 Conductor Humbucker pickups
1 Duncan Single Coil
1 Super Switch 5-Way Switch
1 DPDT Push Pull switch (tone)
1 Pot (volume)

Is this possible?

P/P Down:
-Bridge Humbucker full
-Bridge/Neck Split Inner Coils
-Bridge/Neck full, both (standard middle position on HH guitars)
-Bridge/Neck Split Outer Coils
-Neck Humbucker full

P/P Up:
-Bridge Split
-Bridge Split and Middle Single Coil
-Middle Single Coil
-Neck Split and Middle Single Coil
-Neck Split

Basically with the push/pull down it functions as an HH, and with it up it functions like a Strat. We’ll cross the polarity bridge after we determine feasibility.

Not interested in debating how a split bridge sounds, that a split Humbucker plus middle doesn’t sound like a Strat, that the outers won’t sound like a Telecaster or that there are too many options that don’t sound different enough. This is just a technical feasibility discussion.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I'm having trouble finding it via Forum Advanced Search, so I'll have to wait til I get back home later to look through my folder of paper drawings, but there was a very similar diagram last year that member Mike S (?) drew up that had the push-pull switching the function of position 3 like you want. Will get back to you a little later.

 

[vanlandau]

This is pretty much what I'd like to do with a freeway switch the 10 way blade but it would be interesting to see how to do it with more common parts as well as some multi pole 5 ways can apparently have more options

 

[PFDarkside]

This is pretty much what I'd like to do with a freeway switch the 10 way blade but it would be interesting to see how to do it with more common parts as well as some multi pole 5 ways can apparently have more options

Which diagram are you using? I see they all do them split positions but the Humbucker side is different for all options.

 

[Artie]

Looks like an interesting challenge. I'll look it over and doodle a couple things.

 

[PFDarkside]

Looks like an interesting challenge. I'll look it over and doodle a couple things.

The inner/outer positions are open for other options if there aren’t enough poles to make it all work.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Found it.

Here's the link:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...ggestions-help

Forum member MikeS provided a hand-drawn sketch of this scheme last year for another forum member, and he asked for someone to verify. I translated his sketch to a traditional layout and then verified the signal route for all 10 positions.

I just need to look on my computer harddrive and check if i still have that diagram I created from Mike's sketch.

Edit: i see that in non-SSS mode this scheme has Full HB + Middle instead of Split HB + Middle thay you requested. I'll take a look and see if it can be modded to do the splits in HB mode.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

After reviewing that scheme, yes, it can be modded so in non-SSS mode, the two humbuckers are autosplit in Positions 2 & 4. The Common lug of the pole in the top right of that diagram needs to get routed to Ground instead of the Push-Pull

But Darkside, since you asked for Both Inners and Both Outers specifically in Pos 2 & 4, I need to know if you want each of those to be hum-canceling pairs or you don't care. If you want hum-canceling, i need to know if eithet humbucker will be a RWRP, or you're plannimg to flip the magnet in one of them (and which one), or if you're game for rotating one of the pups 180 degrees in its mounting ring as another way of getting the hum-canceling coils positioned to support what you want. Each option has impacts on how the wires from each humbucker is routed to the superswitch, so the diagram can't be finalized until you provide this further info.

 

[PFDarkside]

After reviewing that scheme, yes, it can be modded so in non-SSS mode, the two humbuckers are autosplit in Positions 2 & 4. The Common lug of the pole in the top right of that diagram needs to get routed to Ground instead of the Push-Pull

But Darkside, since you asked for Both Inners and Both Outers specifically in Pos 2 & 4, I need to know if you want each of those to be hum-canceling pairs or you don't care. If you want hum-canceling, i need to know if eithet humbucker will be a RWRP, or you're plannimg to flip the magnet in one of them (and which one), or if you're game for rotating one of the pups 180 degrees in its mounting ring as another way of getting the hum-canceling coils positioned to support what you want. Each option has impacts on how the wires from each humbucker is routed to the superswitch, so the diagram can't be finalized until you provide this further info.

I think (and I’m open to suggestions) that the optimal thing would be to flip a magnet so that inners and outers would be hum canceling and also provide the most tonal “difference”. (Slugs and screws instead of one of each). That would also make all 5 positions on the HH side hum cancelling.

That would mean the preferred coil to be split to on each Humbucker would have to change to keep him cancelling with the middle. So probably split to the screw on the neck and the slug on the bridge. This would also probably be preferable for the SSS mode as well, with a neck screw and bridge stud
used by themselves.

Does that all make sense?

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Yep, I understand.

Tell us more about that Middle pup. Stack design or no? RWRP or no?

 

[PFDarkside]

Yep, I understand.

Tell us more about that Middle pup. Stack design or no? RWRP or no?

Is an STK-S4 or STK-S4m feasible with splitting in the notch positions? I think all the poles are occupied so a standard SSL-1/APS-1 would probably be ideal. It could be ordered either way for compatibility. Same with the flipped mag humbucker, it could be the neck or bridge. (Thinking Custom Custom/APS-1/APH-1n, but it could just as easily work with JB/SSL-1/Jazz or Custom/SSL-1/59)

I’ve never designed a wiring scheme this complex, hence my request for help! Also, any limitations it might present. Right now I’ve got an Elite Stratocaster and the S-1 is cool, but I never really remember what those other options do. This one I’m proposing makes perfect sense in my head.

Thank you for digging into it!

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Is an STK-S4 or STK-S4m feasible with splitting in the notch positions? I think all the poles are occupied so a standard SSL-1/APS-1 would probably be ideal. It could be ordered either way for compatibility. Same with the flipped mag humbucker, it could be the neck or bridge. (Thinking Custom Custom/APS-1/APH-1n, but it could just as easily work with JB/SSL-1/Jazz or Custom/SSL-1/59)

I’ve never designed a wiring scheme this complex, hence my request for help! Also, any limitations it might present. Right now I’ve got an Elite Stratocaster and the S-1 is cool, but I never really remember what those other options do. This one I’m proposing makes perfect sense in my head.

Thank you for digging into it!

The coils that are chosen to get hum-canceling Outer Coils and Inner Coils, are not compatible with the coils that need to be chosen to get hum-canceling with Neck HB split + Middle SC pup, and Bridge HB split + Middle SC pup. In the first scenario, you are choosing two coils of opposite magnetic polarity for Both Inners and Both Outers (in each case, 1 north coil and 1 south coil). But to get hum-canceling with a Middle Pup (which we'll assume is South magnetic polarity for example purposes), you need each humbucker split to coils of the *same* polarity (North in this case). So in order to fulfill your request, either you need to add a 2nd push-pull switch that you will operate in tandem w the 1st push-pull, or instead of using a push-pull (2PDT) at all, use an S1 push-push pot or some other 4PDT switch which has an extra pole to change one of the 2 coils to be split in one of the two modes. Or, if you don't want to do that, explore other design options, which you said you were open to doing.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

... or, choose to "not sweat" lack of hum-caceling in one of the two modes.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Oh, sorry, meant to say earlier, you're welcome. I'm glad to try and help out. I love wiring challenges like this.

 

[PFDarkside]

I drew up the configuration, but I think I see what you are saying. The switch will need to “reuse” the same split coils as inner or outer in one of the positions? I figured in 2, it would always split to “inners” and in 4 to “outers”, but only select the active pickups by the push pull position.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I drew up the configuration, but I think I see what you are saying. The switch will need to “reuse” the same split coils as inner or outer in one of the positions? I figured in 2, it would always split to “inners” and in 4 to “outers”, but only select the active pickups by the push pull position.

The 2 poles of the push-pull are already fully consumed with the task of A) deactivating the Middle coil (Pole 1) and allowing the signal to pass to the Master Volume from the humbuckers instead of the Middle Pickup in Position 3 (pole 2). So the choices for which coils to split to, cannot be placed into a push-pull cuz it only has 2 poles. Instead those decisions must reside in the superswitch. And the superswitch can only be set up w the coilsplit plans for Mode 1 (HH) or Mode 2 (SSS).

If you use an S1 switch instead of a push-pull, you get the additional pole needed to override one of the the coilsplit choices in the superswitch, and without having any additional physical maneuvers required. It's still just 1 motion (push), like the push-pull pot. And actually, a push motion is more ergonomic than a pull motion.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

I started digging into MikeS' diagram that I referred to earlier, and it turns out it actually is not as similar to your request as I remembered it to be. During HH mode, it doesn't split the HBs at all, it just adds the Middle pup to the full humbuckers in Positions 2 and 4. If the superswitch wiring gets updated to provide Both Inners and Both Outers in Positions 2 and 4 during HH mode, all 4 poles of the superswitch get used up. But one pole on the superswitch needs to remain available to handle the override signal routing from the push-pull switch in Up mode.

So I have to rethink what is possible here.

However, I would still say that since different coilsplit choices need to be made in HH modes and SSS modes (since hum-canceling is wanted in each of those coilsplit combo scenarios), that a switch with more poles than a 2PDT push-pull would be needed in addition to the superswitch.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

So I should list the 10 positions that MikeS' diagram yields. Maybe it would be of interest to you. It does do the SSS mode that you requested, and Both HBs in Position 3 in HH mode.

Push Pull DOWN
1. Bridge HB
2. Bridge HB / Middle
3. Bridge HB / Neck HB
4. Neck HB / Middle
5. Neck HB

Push Pull UP
1. Bridge Split
2. Bridge Split / Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck Split / Middle
5. Neck Split

Ref:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/foru...02#post5747402

 

[PFDarkside]

@jack_tripper

Wow, absolutely top notch work. Thank you for putting this together.

Reviewing what you have, i don’t think a lack of hum cancelling in position 3 of the SSS is necessary since the “inners” and “outers” in the HH setup are hum cancelling.

I love the S1 switch, I have it on a Strat and a Tele. Added functionality, easier to use and it retains the classic look. I just wish they were available in a “Tone” version for Strat and a few more colors for Tele!

Let me do some brainstorming to determine next steps.

Thank you again.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

@jack_tripper

Wow, absolutely top notch work. Thank you for putting this together.

Reviewing what you have, i don’t think a lack of hum cancelling in position 3 of the SSS is necessary since the “inners” and “outers” in the HH setup are hum cancelling.

I love the S1 switch, I have it on a Strat and a Tele. Added functionality, easier to use and it retains the classic look. I just wish they were available in a “Tone” version for Strat and a few more colors for Tele!

Let me do some brainstorming to determine next steps.

Thank you again.

You'll see i deleted that last post shortly after

Cuz i realized one additional switch was needed.

** BUT if Artie comes through on successfully developing a DIY 6 pole S1 switch that he mentioned in a recent thread, then a 3rd physical switch would not be needed.

I am almost done modding the diagram to include the 3rd switch. Will be up in a couple minutes.

I will also go into detail about some options to use that diagram as-is for now * WITHOUT * a 3rd switch if you're willing to give up 1 bit of functionality.