Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
What is the difference?
Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
- Thread starter Andrew Lamprecht
- Start date
Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
Why thank you!
Why thank you!
metlking
Well-known member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
No problem! There is much debate on this subject. I can't tell you which is better and I'd bet most people can't either. Clip for clip I doubt you'd pick which was which. I've owned many Les Pauls in my day and they've each had their own "personality" tone wise anyway. Fact is Gibson has been drilling the swish cheese holes to lighten up the guitars since the very early 80's. Only the Custom Shop Historic Les Pauls have a solid body. They use the lightest mahogany available for those guitars.
From My Les Paul Forum: Gibson Les Paul 101:
Rather than keep sending people to Gibson Forums, I figured I'd post this here. Maybe with some luck, this will become a sticky.
This post mainly applies to newer Les Pauls. Nowadays, there are two types of Les Pauls - Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop.
Gibson USA
Weight-relief started around 1982/1983. Every Gibson USA Les Paul between 1982 - 2007 is weight-relieved. They do not have solid-body construction. Weight-relief is also known as "swiss cheese holes" and refers to the nine holes drilled out of the body in order to reduce the weight of the guitar.
Chambering officially began for 2007 but the late 2006s are also chambered. Any Les Paul made after October 2006 maybe or likely is chambered. Every 2007 and newer Gibson USA Les Paul is chambered, except for the Les Paul Traditional. The Les Paul Traditional has swiss cheese holes. Chambering is essentially hollowing out the body. Again, this is in order to reduce the weight of the guitar.
Gibson Custom Shop
Gibson's Custom Shop makes regular production guitars and historic reissues. The regular production guitars, such as the Les Paul Custom, are also weight-relieved. They do not have solid-bodies.
The historic reissues are solid. All historic reissues, be it Standards or Customs, are solid. The exception being the chambered reissues. Chambered reissues are often referred to as Cloud 9 guitars. They are identified by their serial number, which begins with CR. chambered-reissue.org
No problem! There is much debate on this subject. I can't tell you which is better and I'd bet most people can't either. Clip for clip I doubt you'd pick which was which. I've owned many Les Pauls in my day and they've each had their own "personality" tone wise anyway. Fact is Gibson has been drilling the swish cheese holes to lighten up the guitars since the very early 80's. Only the Custom Shop Historic Les Pauls have a solid body. They use the lightest mahogany available for those guitars.
From My Les Paul Forum: Gibson Les Paul 101:
Rather than keep sending people to Gibson Forums, I figured I'd post this here. Maybe with some luck, this will become a sticky.
This post mainly applies to newer Les Pauls. Nowadays, there are two types of Les Pauls - Gibson USA and Gibson Custom Shop.
Gibson USA
Weight-relief started around 1982/1983. Every Gibson USA Les Paul between 1982 - 2007 is weight-relieved. They do not have solid-body construction. Weight-relief is also known as "swiss cheese holes" and refers to the nine holes drilled out of the body in order to reduce the weight of the guitar.
Chambering officially began for 2007 but the late 2006s are also chambered. Any Les Paul made after October 2006 maybe or likely is chambered. Every 2007 and newer Gibson USA Les Paul is chambered, except for the Les Paul Traditional. The Les Paul Traditional has swiss cheese holes. Chambering is essentially hollowing out the body. Again, this is in order to reduce the weight of the guitar.
Gibson Custom Shop
Gibson's Custom Shop makes regular production guitars and historic reissues. The regular production guitars, such as the Les Paul Custom, are also weight-relieved. They do not have solid-bodies.
The historic reissues are solid. All historic reissues, be it Standards or Customs, are solid. The exception being the chambered reissues. Chambered reissues are often referred to as Cloud 9 guitars. They are identified by their serial number, which begins with CR. chambered-reissue.org
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
Chambering is done because of the quality of the Crummy "Mahogany" they get . If they didn't do it, they'd have 13 pound Norlin-esqe guitars and then people would start beyotching more than they do about the weight relief.
Now I prefer a heavey Paul, but hey- 12 lbs.'s? Aww, nah, brah.
My 04 Standard Les paul is awesome- Pre-chambered, and goes about ten pounds;
Its still weight relieved, but I think they just drilled a few holes- they are all weight relieved since a certain point in time- and I can't recall what it is, but its a good ways back time-wise. I am hoping it wasn't * "Swiss Cheesed". I may have a friend in the medical field X-ray it. Deosn't matter too much ; its still the best Paul I can afford and its pretty nice, whatever it is.
Anyway, what they did/or do wiht many is called
*SWISS_CHEESING, and that is NOT good.
They just basically mutilate the body with randome holes not near as prety as the ones MetalKing illustrated, and slap a cap on it and send it out to us suckers.
Chambering is done because of the quality of the Crummy "Mahogany" they get . If they didn't do it, they'd have 13 pound Norlin-esqe guitars and then people would start beyotching more than they do about the weight relief.
Now I prefer a heavey Paul, but hey- 12 lbs.'s? Aww, nah, brah.
My 04 Standard Les paul is awesome- Pre-chambered, and goes about ten pounds;
Its still weight relieved, but I think they just drilled a few holes- they are all weight relieved since a certain point in time- and I can't recall what it is, but its a good ways back time-wise. I am hoping it wasn't * "Swiss Cheesed". I may have a friend in the medical field X-ray it. Deosn't matter too much ; its still the best Paul I can afford and its pretty nice, whatever it is.
Anyway, what they did/or do wiht many is called
*SWISS_CHEESING, and that is NOT good.
They just basically mutilate the body with randome holes not near as prety as the ones MetalKing illustrated, and slap a cap on it and send it out to us suckers.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
All the crying about swiss cheese and chambering aside, what if it sounds good?
I have an '04 Standard, presumably with weight relief holes, sounds perfectly wonderful to me. I have an '07 Historic, presumably no relieving or chambering, which also sounds wonderful.
I suppose I should be caked with snot and tears over the injustice of it all, but I can't help thinking from my extensive experience actually playing both LP's that both are extremely cool guitars in every respect. Life is good...
All the crying about swiss cheese and chambering aside, what if it sounds good?
I have an '04 Standard, presumably with weight relief holes, sounds perfectly wonderful to me. I have an '07 Historic, presumably no relieving or chambering, which also sounds wonderful.
I suppose I should be caked with snot and tears over the injustice of it all, but I can't help thinking from my extensive experience actually playing both LP's that both are extremely cool guitars in every respect. Life is good...
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
I don't really like the Chambered guitar , but hopefully mine is "weight relieved" with some functional holes drilled neatly into the body..but have you seen the Xrays of the "Swiss Cheesed" guitars?
Trust me, its a very sloppy random and ugly thing to witness, and you don't want it.
Not that a guitar couldnt sound good with ti like that, but puh..leassse!..I'll pass.
I don't really like the Chambered guitar , but hopefully mine is "weight relieved" with some functional holes drilled neatly into the body..but have you seen the Xrays of the "Swiss Cheesed" guitars?
Trust me, its a very sloppy random and ugly thing to witness, and you don't want it.
Not that a guitar couldnt sound good with ti like that, but puh..leassse!..I'll pass.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
After playing a bunch of epiphones that aren't swiss cheesed, the swissed LP stds sound freakin GOOD to me. I dunno wtf you guys are talkin about.
I'll take swiss cheese all day because the good examples of those instruments sound AWESOME.
Chambered is designed to change the sound, as far as I can tell. I haven't played a chambered LP ever, but I can't imagine hating it.
After playing a bunch of epiphones that aren't swiss cheesed, the swissed LP stds sound freakin GOOD to me. I dunno wtf you guys are talkin about.
I'll take swiss cheese all day because the good examples of those instruments sound AWESOME.
Chambered is designed to change the sound, as far as I can tell. I haven't played a chambered LP ever, but I can't imagine hating it.
hamerfan
Well-known member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
Thats not the point. First of all there are many more guitars produced nowadays than 1959. Therefore you need more wood and you need to use all you can get.
The quality is not more crummy than 59. There are also very heavy 59s.
Secondly Gibson does select. They precut the bodies to certain sizes and weight them. The lighter ones go to the Custom shop.
I have seen a pic of this station with a big list on the wall where you can see the weight limits for Custom shop models.
Thirdly some people think the lighter wood is better. According the experiences of experts the medium weights tend to be the best resonance wood. For a fully built guitar its around 9.5 lb
Thats not the point. First of all there are many more guitars produced nowadays than 1959. Therefore you need more wood and you need to use all you can get.
The quality is not more crummy than 59. There are also very heavy 59s.
Secondly Gibson does select. They precut the bodies to certain sizes and weight them. The lighter ones go to the Custom shop.
I have seen a pic of this station with a big list on the wall where you can see the weight limits for Custom shop models.
Thirdly some people think the lighter wood is better. According the experiences of experts the medium weights tend to be the best resonance wood. For a fully built guitar its around 9.5 lb
John_L
New member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
My argument is that Gibson should own up to it. They are selling a semi as a solid which really it isn't. Same with Fender they sell chambered guitars as solid body when they are in fact thinlines with plastic soundboards in some cases. G&L are the only company of any size who do it honestly offering thinline versions of most of their models. Anderson also offers hollow versions across his range.
Seriously if you can't play a guitar which weighs more than 8lbs for any length of time then you should get a check up.
My argument is that Gibson should own up to it. They are selling a semi as a solid which really it isn't. Same with Fender they sell chambered guitars as solid body when they are in fact thinlines with plastic soundboards in some cases. G&L are the only company of any size who do it honestly offering thinline versions of most of their models. Anderson also offers hollow versions across his range.
Seriously if you can't play a guitar which weighs more than 8lbs for any length of time then you should get a check up.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
I've never heard of this. What specifically are you talking about?
I've never heard of this. What specifically are you talking about?
John_L
New member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
I tried an American Delux tele a while back and there was nothing under the guard seemingly. Other people have said the same.
I tried an American Delux tele a while back and there was nothing under the guard seemingly. Other people have said the same.
marvelous_seven
New member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
There's no need to debate anymore,those pic tell us all
Chambered:
Weight relieved:
There's no need to debate anymore,those pic tell us all
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
are you referring to 'swimming pool routes'? cuz it's not like Fender takes out EVERY LAST BIT OF WOOD under the pickguard..if anything they do big universal-size routes to fit various types of pickups.
Either way it's a moot point -- if a guitar sounds and plays good and looks okay then it doesn't matter how much wood they did or did not remove from it.
are you referring to 'swimming pool routes'? cuz it's not like Fender takes out EVERY LAST BIT OF WOOD under the pickguard..if anything they do big universal-size routes to fit various types of pickups.
Either way it's a moot point -- if a guitar sounds and plays good and looks okay then it doesn't matter how much wood they did or did not remove from it.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
The bottom line of all this is that if you like the sound of the guitar then it is good...
That said a lot of you guys are really spouting off some truly wrong info in this thread.
One thing worth mentioning is that only 2 patterns of "holes" or "chambering" are being talked about here and Gibson uses no less than 3...
Sometimes it is done simply to lower the weight of a guitar and sometimes it is done for tonal options...the Cloud 9 Les Pauls for example are almost completely hollow under the maple tops and it's done to give the guitar a more open, hollow tone...and it does!
As for the quality of the mahogany Gibson uses in Les Paul it is a fact that non Historic/VOS guitars use heavier mahogany but it has nothing to do with Gibson cheeping out oir trying to rip people off it's a simple issue of needing more light weight mahogany than they can get.
If you want a 8 pound or so LP that is not chambered or weight relived (like you'd have gotten in the 50's spend the extra money and get a Historic/VOS. If you want to save money buy a Standard, Faded, Studio, BFG or whatever just know that some of those guitars tip the scales at over 10 pounds.
Also worth mentioning there is a LP now that is not a Historic and that is not chambered/weight relived...the LP Traditional Standard, Tradition Pro and Tradition Plus are all non chambered/weight relived guitars.
Also if you are so inclined the Cloud 9 series of LP's use the lighter mahogany AND are chambered (in a patteren not yet shown in this thread!) and the result is a Les Paul that weights in at 7 or so pounds.
So, if you want to debate "doing it like Gibson did in the 50's"...give it up, new Historic/VOS are as close as Gibson has gotten in years AND THEY ARE STILL WRONG IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE! If you want a dead nuts 50's LP replica they are out there and can be easily had...if you have 20-50k to spend.
If you want to debate quality of wood, GIVE IT UP...all the super light weight tone woods are just about gone from this planet and more will not be here in any of our life times so if you want the "super high quality old light weight tone woods" you better save big and buy an old Les Paul (and no, I don't mean some late 60's/70's POS...).
If you think this is just Gibson you are again wrong, there are boutique builders out there DOING THE SAME THING to their mahogany/maple guitars to lower the weight but the difference between them and a Les Paul is their guitars have a 12-18 month wait list and a 10k price tag so for those that want to ***** about Gibsons pricing and/or quality, I say GET OVER IT!
One last thing, while we're at it...Gibson was weight reliving and chambering guitars for a long time before it hit the internet and 98% of players had no idea...I dare say that most guys in this thread or even on this forum couldn't tell the difference between a weight relived and a non weight relived guitar in a blind A/B test if their life depended on it.
Now, in the words of FZ..."Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar"
The bottom line of all this is that if you like the sound of the guitar then it is good...
That said a lot of you guys are really spouting off some truly wrong info in this thread.
One thing worth mentioning is that only 2 patterns of "holes" or "chambering" are being talked about here and Gibson uses no less than 3...
Sometimes it is done simply to lower the weight of a guitar and sometimes it is done for tonal options...the Cloud 9 Les Pauls for example are almost completely hollow under the maple tops and it's done to give the guitar a more open, hollow tone...and it does!
As for the quality of the mahogany Gibson uses in Les Paul it is a fact that non Historic/VOS guitars use heavier mahogany but it has nothing to do with Gibson cheeping out oir trying to rip people off it's a simple issue of needing more light weight mahogany than they can get.
If you want a 8 pound or so LP that is not chambered or weight relived (like you'd have gotten in the 50's spend the extra money and get a Historic/VOS. If you want to save money buy a Standard, Faded, Studio, BFG or whatever just know that some of those guitars tip the scales at over 10 pounds.
Also worth mentioning there is a LP now that is not a Historic and that is not chambered/weight relived...the LP Traditional Standard, Tradition Pro and Tradition Plus are all non chambered/weight relived guitars.
Also if you are so inclined the Cloud 9 series of LP's use the lighter mahogany AND are chambered (in a patteren not yet shown in this thread!) and the result is a Les Paul that weights in at 7 or so pounds.
So, if you want to debate "doing it like Gibson did in the 50's"...give it up, new Historic/VOS are as close as Gibson has gotten in years AND THEY ARE STILL WRONG IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE! If you want a dead nuts 50's LP replica they are out there and can be easily had...if you have 20-50k to spend.
If you want to debate quality of wood, GIVE IT UP...all the super light weight tone woods are just about gone from this planet and more will not be here in any of our life times so if you want the "super high quality old light weight tone woods" you better save big and buy an old Les Paul (and no, I don't mean some late 60's/70's POS...).
If you think this is just Gibson you are again wrong, there are boutique builders out there DOING THE SAME THING to their mahogany/maple guitars to lower the weight but the difference between them and a Les Paul is their guitars have a 12-18 month wait list and a 10k price tag so for those that want to ***** about Gibsons pricing and/or quality, I say GET OVER IT!
One last thing, while we're at it...Gibson was weight reliving and chambering guitars for a long time before it hit the internet and 98% of players had no idea...I dare say that most guys in this thread or even on this forum couldn't tell the difference between a weight relived and a non weight relived guitar in a blind A/B test if their life depended on it.
Now, in the words of FZ..."Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar"
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
^ exactly
the fact that we have pulled out an X-ray machine to find meaningless nuances in guitar construction then write multiple paragraphs complaining and / or debating about its affect on the sound of the instruments really just means two things
guitarists aren't playing their guitars
and guitars are being x-ray'd and analyzed instead of being used to create art.
**** that ****, this is lame. play some music.
^ exactly
the fact that we have pulled out an X-ray machine to find meaningless nuances in guitar construction then write multiple paragraphs complaining and / or debating about its affect on the sound of the instruments really just means two things
guitarists aren't playing their guitars
and guitars are being x-ray'd and analyzed instead of being used to create art.
**** that ****, this is lame. play some music.
phil_104
Cheesesteakologist
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
Word.
If you want a LP, go to a good store, play a bunch of standards, traditionals, customs, historics and what ever else you can get your paws on. Pick the best one, that you think sounds best at the end of the day, and go on living with it.
Word.
If you want a LP, go to a good store, play a bunch of standards, traditionals, customs, historics and what ever else you can get your paws on. Pick the best one, that you think sounds best at the end of the day, and go on living with it.
jmv
New member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
+1! I played 30+ different LPs when shopping for mine, and knew that mine was the right one within a few seconds of playing it. I don't give a flip what the inside of it looks like...
+1! I played 30+ different LPs when shopping for mine, and knew that mine was the right one within a few seconds of playing it. I don't give a flip what the inside of it looks like...
LtKojak
New member
Re: Chambered LPs vs. Weight Relieved...
I couldn't've said it better! :naughty: :fing2:
I couldn't've said it better! :naughty: :fing2:
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