changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

[strangegrey]

Hey folks,

As some of you may know, I've been very much on the fence with the SCN pickups in my strat. So I called a buddy and asked him to bring his Valley Arts with 2 non-noiseless singles and a bridge humbucker. We both have no idea who made the singles or the humbucker in the VA, but we were both curious to compare the singles in the VA with my SCNs (with s1 switch *(not* engaged).

So we did a 'pepsi challenge'....obviously, the feel of the guitars were different and it was kinda hard to blindfold ourselves with respect to these guitars...but we tried to be as objective as possible.


Needless to say, I was utterly shocked at the results. The SCN's stood up to the true singles in his Valley Arts and in some ways beat them out. The 'artifacts' that I like to look for in true singles that I thought were missing in the SCNs were really there...it was just easier to find them with a point of comparison (the valley arts). The only difference, that we both heard, between the two guitars was the aparent noise. The SCN's were completely silent and the singles in the VA had some 60 cycle hum.

I was completely expecting the SCN's to lose out to these stock single coils, namely because they were true single coils and the SCN's were stackers. I thought I was going to hear the obvious difference between the two guitars and immediately order a set of true singles (like a set of ssl-3s or fat 50s or etc)....

So this whole experience got me thinking.....as guitarists, are we uncomfortable with consistency in tone/sound? I've often wondered whether or not I'm upgrading or changing a piece of gear for the sake of changing it...or am I really making an improvement?

It seems to me that we sometimes crave the change in tone to our sound...instead of living with and making the gear work for us....


I once gigged with a bassist who was standing in for our regular guy. The guy is a great pocket player who's been around since dirt....the type of guy that rolls his own cigarettes and drives a car 30 years old.... I asked him about his gear and we shifted the conversation to pickups. He immediately rolled his eyes and went..."it's just wire wrapped around a magnet man!"

Having swapped enough pickups in my time, I don't know if I agree with that sentiment...but it does have a ring of truth to it...These guys over on the Les Paul forum that swap boutique pickups in their R9s every other 3 months are probably doing themselves a disservice. Each one of those pickups are probably perfectly fine PAF clones...as is the trusty 59! The subtle minor differences between the two, probably don't merit a swap of pickups....They'd be better off learning the nuances of their particular pickups and discovering how to squeeze the most out of them, instead of swapping furiously...

I dunno....I felt like ranting...Hope you guys dont mind.

Feel free to discuss....

-Frank

 

[Dangerine49]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I'm with you, Frank.

A couple of years ago I bought a used '98 MIA Deluxe Strat, with the original Fender Vintage Noiseless pickups, for a price I couldn't refuse. Based on everything I had read before I played it, I was expecting to have to immediately rip out the "Vintage Toneless" pups. Much to my surprise, I discovered that they sounded quite good with my rig both clean and overdriven for the style of music that I play, i.e. classic rock, folk rock, country rock, R&B and blues. I had already been a noiseless convert from a set of Kinmans that I bought for a CIJ Strat (now transplanted into a MIM Strat). The VN's are a little bit tamer that the Kinmans, but quite nice and Stratty nonetheless. That MIA Deluxe Strat is a sweet package, and the only guitar that will probably remain totally stock.

 

[ErikH]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

Ya know, I'm glad to read this from you, very much. Especially after all the trouble you now thought you were having with them. It's amazing how the mind/ear can deceive us when something is not in the same "comfort zone". We get so used to hearing pickups a certain way, like single-coils with the noise, that as soon as we hear one without it, it's not the same, or we think/hear that it's not the same right off the bat.

My Strat has seen the most pickup changes but I'm set on what's in there/going in there now. Just waitin' for my custom wound singles to come back. Should be wound this week. I changed them mostly because I was the least happy with the bridge but after a while without the Little '59, I've come to realize that I really am happy with it in there after all, so it went back in.

As a BL fan, I have faith in what he does, probably because he's been making aftermarket pickups the longest of anyone. I really dig the SCN's and wish I could get a set aftermarket but it's OK that I can't. There's eBay for those foolish enough to take them out for something else.

 

[thor666]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

Consider this: is it the intuitive thing for people to want to change a stock guitar to "upgrade" it? Do we always have the notion that stock is inferior to the aftermarket stuff out there?

Sometimes I wonder how far changing these stuff will help. I have a friend who's on a pup changing binge just to explore more pickups - basically he might have changed more pups than you've changed strings in that time.

I have a MIM strat with SD pups, and an MIA strat fully stock. I love both though, and I'm glad I'm not the pup-binging personnel. The MIM sounds good, sounds different, but I think I can manage the peculiarities of the Classic Stacks and try and make good out of something different. I'm very happy to tell myself that I've never overspent on equipment (classic stack, custom staggered all about 25USD used per piece).

Whatever works, works. I suppose sticking to the equipment you buy for a longer time is good. It helps you to develop you as a player with your equipment.

 

[Kelsey]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I really like the SCN's in my Deluxe V neck Strat, and I also really like the Antiquity Texas Hot/Custom bridge combo in my Texas Special Strat. There is a difference in tone, but they are very close on the whole (except for the notch tones, where the vintage singles have the edge). Both sets sound a bit different than the SSL-1/Twangbanger combo in my 3rd Strat, but the edge goes to the Ants and the noiseless SCNs. I like having the choice of different tones with some overlap for redundancy.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

So this whole experience got me thinking.....as guitarists, are we uncomfortable with consistency in tone/sound? I've often wondered whether or not I'm upgrading or changing a piece of gear for the sake of changing it...or am I really making an improvement?

-Frank

Short answer is sometimes yes, sometimes no. The unabridged version is sometimes hell yeah, and sometimes hell no.

I think a lot of these threads on this topic make the false assumption that changing pickups means you are using up vast amounts of practice time tinkering inside your guitar. It's different for someone who has to rely on a tech to do electronics work for them, but for someone familiar with pickup swaps, it just isn't true. It shouldn't take more than about a half-hour to 45 minutes to swap out pickups, so even if you swap pu's 20 times in a year, that's only 10 to 15 hours.

For that reason, I say there's no reason you can't both be on an endless tone quest AND be practicing your gonads off. It's a false choice.

UNLESS...it's a case of a player who thinks better sounding pickups will result in better note choice, phrasing, vibrato, etc., in which case you obviously have a point. Better-sounding pickups will inspire you to play a little bit better, but not THAT much better, which only lots of practice can get you. A little talent doesn't hurt either...

 

[Artie]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I agree with Zhang, but will add this. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the fundamental difference between pups, (with a few exceptions), is just output level and EQ. You could probably take a bright pup, run it through a 3rd-octave equalizer and mimick any other. You'ld dial-in your tone and leave it. But who wants a big ole EQ as a permanent part of their rig? So you search for the right pup that has that sound characteristic built-in.

Nothing wrong with that if you have the time and the inclination.

 

[Telesexual]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I changed the pickups on my squier and I have to say obvious difference. But other than cheap guitars I really only would want to get of the single coil hum. Thats why I want an american deluxe tele. Its a guitar that I could probably keep for a long time with out the hum, stock.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I agree with Zhang, but will add this. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the fundamental difference between pups, (with a few exceptions), is just output level and EQ. You could probably take a bright pup, run it through a 3rd-octave equalizer and mimick any other. You'ld dial-in your tone and leave it.

I've actually tried that and it just doesn't work. You'd probably have to have a 200-band graphic EQ, and even then, there's no guarantee the caps and resistors will give you the precise freq ranges on each band unless they have super-tight tolerances, and even if they did, the cap and resistor values can still drift over time.

It's sort of like when they blur someone's face on TV into those digital squares -- you can make the squares smaller and smaller but never quite get it right unless you get rid of the squares entirely.

 

[Artie]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I've actually tried that and it just doesn't work.

Cool. Thats good to know. I was toying with the idea of dusting off the ole eq and seeing if there was any merit in that theory.

Also, I can tell that there's no way an Antiquity could be "mimicked". There's just something there, that isn't in my other pups.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

Cool. Thats good to know. I was toying with the idea of dusting off the ole eq and seeing if there was any merit in that theory.

Also, I can tell that there's no way an Antiquity could be "mimicked". There's just something there, that isn't in my other pups.

Yup. No matter what you try you still end up with too much of this and not enough of that.

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

Now, if you had a 200 band EQ with compression, expansion, distortion/waveform manipulation and phase control for each band, you might be getting somewhere.

For example, I listen not for high frequency levels, but for a subtle compression/distortion in a certain range that adds that elusive chime/sparkle to the sound.

I think it's not so much the frequency levels that make the magic of a good pickup. We can always modify that with an amp or pedal. It's the internal resonances of the pickup compressing, distorting and shaping the dynamics of the frequencies. That's why two pickups with almost the same exact sound can either be "smooth and airy" or "brittle and ice-picky".

Deep theories unfounded in hard facts provided here for your enjoyment...

 

[strangegrey]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

I think a lot of these threads on this topic make the false assumption that changing pickups means you are using up vast amounts of practice time tinkering inside your guitar. It's different for someone who has to rely on a tech to do electronics work for them, but for someone familiar with pickup swaps, it just isn't true. It shouldn't take more than about a half-hour to 45 minutes to swap out pickups, so even if you swap pu's 20 times in a year, that's only 10 to 15 hours.

I'm glad you said this, because it offers me an opportunity to clarify. Asuming that I swap the pickups on a guitar every 2 months (which we should all agree is a bit excessive), there's still *plenty* of time to practice and play guitar. Even once a month...

However, That's not what I was driving at. Prior to your pickup swap, you're obviously unhappy with your sound...you're not going to develop your ear as a musician in that state.....I don't care who you are....Then you swap the pickups...then you spend the next few weeks getting used to them, learning what they can do, what they cant...etc...

Then, you take this pickup swapper and compound the problem by the guy tinkering with other parts of his rig, changing pedals, changing tubes, upgrading his tailpiece...whatever...

To me, it suggests a state of discomfort as a musician. If you're constantly making changes, you're never giving yourself the opportunity to train your ear and develop with the gear you have.

Sometimes, changing gear is necessary....but I think people, including myself, are too quick to condemn a piece of gear (say a pickup, amp, guitar, pedal) without letting the experience run it's full course...

 

[thor666]

Re: changing pickups for the sake of... (SCN content)

agreed. one day i'll regret selling my Zoom Power Drive too early.


but then again, nah. I've heard better pedals.