Cheap pedal score

cayle_6

New member
I went to a local music store to try out the Joyo pedals. Apparently these are clones of some expensive pedals. They feel cheap and light. The switches and jacks feel like they wouldn't last very long. What I did like was the sound that came from them. I tried a Sweet Baby Overdrive and the Us Dream. The SBO is supposed to be a Sweet Honey Overdrive clone and the Us Dream is a Suhr Riot clone minus the switching option. They sound really good. For the price (~$45), I think these are worth a shot.

So I scored the Us Dream pedal. I have not yet tried a Riot so i cannot compare but I like what this pedal gives. Tight articulate distortion. gearmandude has a comparison on youtube.



DSC05215.jpg
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

As always - if it sounds good - ROCK IT!

I am just sick to death of the booteek tone chasers. I don't disagree that a well constructed, quality pedal is exactly that, and will sound as such. But at the end of the day, at some point, you have over-spec'd, over-engineered, and just lost your mind for $2.97 worth of parts.

Plus, fuzz is SUCH a personal thing. No two sound exactly the same, guitar/pup/playing/amp all interact with it. I say listen to them all, pick the noise you love.

Too many people swayed by internet gossip, fan boi's, bandwagon riders, and every other bit of internet crap there is.

The Rogue (Modtone, and every other similar) delay is a great example. for all the love peaople throw at the toy du jour - I bet 90% of them couldn't pick this from a real one, and none of them in a band use setting.

And in a blind listen when tweeked - which would they like better?
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

Agree with this. Boutique pedals are nice. I've had a lot of Barber pedals and they simply never fail to put a smile on my face when I play. But a lot of the boutique pedals are waaaaaaaay too pricey. Right now, my mindset is that if I can sound good at a fraction of the cost then that's better.


As always - if it sounds good - ROCK IT!

I am just sick to death of the booteek tone chasers. I don't disagree that a well constructed, quality pedal is exactly that, and will sound as such. But at the end of the day, at some point, you have over-spec'd, over-engineered, and just lost your mind for $2.97 worth of parts.

Plus, fuzz is SUCH a personal thing. No two sound exactly the same, guitar/pup/playing/amp all interact with it. I say listen to them all, pick the noise you love.

Too many people swayed by internet gossip, fan boi's, bandwagon riders, and every other bit of internet crap there is.

The Rogue (Modtone, and every other similar) delay is a great example. for all the love peaople throw at the toy du jour - I bet 90% of them couldn't pick this from a real one, and none of them in a band use setting.

And in a blind listen when tweeked - which would they like better?
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

I generally avoid this stuff - but since you mentioned the "modelled on" factor, I have to ask - is there anywhere that lists what these guys were shooting for when making each pedal?

There is something to be said for having the RIGHT pedal for the job vs having THE pedal...

and at those prices you could indeed have a few.
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

But at the end of the day, at some point, you have over-spec'd, over-engineered, and just lost your mind for $2.97 worth of parts.

Hey Acehole, there's more than $2.97 that goes into a boutique pedal. Check this post from a prominent builder over on the Gear Page discussing profit margins of boutique brands:


Jeff B.; said:
I elaborated on this subject on Guitars Canada a while back so I'll just cannibalize that post and comment on what some of the costs are that affect the bottom line.
This is based on my experience of going from hobby to business and doesn't represent every builder.

The costs it takes to run even a small pedal business properly can be quite high as it takes a lot of capital tied up in inventory and other expenses before you even turn on your soldering iron.

Inventory. You need enclosures, footswitches, jacks, potentiometers, knobs, resistors, capacitors etc. all in different values and sizes. You have to buy this stuff in large quantities to get a good price on it which costs more money up front and since it all usually comes from several different places you pay shipping costs several times over. You need the inventory because you can't wait for weeks for one silly part to show up or when you're prototyping you need to be able to walk over to your parts stash and pull out exactly what you need right now. If something breaks or goes wrong you need to be able grab another off of the shelf and keep going. This is very expensive and it takes a lot of money and time to get to the point of usually having whatever you need on hand. You also need a lot of cabinets, drawers and labels to keep it all organized. If you're like me and don't have an available local supply of anything electronic related and need to order everything in you need to keep an even higher level of inventory for those cases where shipments are late, tied up in customs or lost because you can't just go to a local store and find what you need in case of emergency.

Website. You need a website obviously. Recurring costs for that are name registrations, site hosting, if you use a shopping cart system you need a SSL certificate to keep you customer's info safer.
If you can't build or maintain a website then you have to pay someone for that service as well as any functionality add-ons or modules that you need on your site.

Business registration, fees, rent, utilities, insurance, taxes etc. These are ongoing recurring costs. If you can't do your own accounting or finances then that's more money you have to spend.
Utilities and materials. Internet, computers, software, paper, ink, shipping labels and materials like tape and those little white boxes pedals come in. That's more money tied up in inventory and supplies.
A lot of small builders are not registered businesses (FWIW on this subject I am legal and registered) so some of these costs wouldn't apply and most work out of their home so a lot of that overhead is covered.

If you're a registered business and draw a paycheck out of it the government is going to want it's cut of it too don't forget and if you are not registered and make too much money the Govt. may not be happy about it if/when they find out.

Paint, powder-coat and graphics. Paint isn't cheap and neither is powder-coating, even if you can do it yourself and get good results. It's time consuming and time is money. As for graphics if you can't design your own you'll have to pay someone to do it and you still need a way to label them whether it be decals, ink stamps or silk screening. Costs vary depending on method used.

Tools. You need a good soldering station, which isn't cheap but it's worth every penny and it is a purchase you will never regret. You also need a supply of solder and iron tips for when they wear out and a fume extractor is an absolute necessity now. If you drill your own enclosures you also need a drill press and a good set of drills and you need to know how to use them properly, accurately and safely.

Circuit boards. Perfboard and veroboard is fine for very low volume work but you need PCB to make anything at a reasonably quick pace. Again, if you can't do it yourself it will cost you money in addition to the costs of having the boards made for a product that may or may not sell. There's that money tied up in inventory thing again.

Warranty. Sh!t happens sometimes and these are costs you have to cover.

Dealers. If you have dealers or plan on having dealers keep in mind that dealers need to make money off of your products too and have other expenses to cover associated with carrying your products you may not be aware of so your dealer price will be a great deal less that your list price.


R and D costs. These can be considerable and it is money and time spent before you even have something for sale if it ever even gets to the for sale point. That money has to come from somewhere and if your pedal is a sales dud those are costs you will not be able to recoup.

Pedal Demos. You need gear to record them yourself or be willing to give pedals away in exchange for someone else doing it.

Advertising. Running ads online or in print as well as fees for places like ebay can add up. Forum memberships can add up if you pay for membership on a lot of forums.

Going to Trade shows?
Fuel, hotel, food, gear rental, promo materials etc, with no guarantee of a return on all the money you spend to do it.

Paypal and bank charges. Paypal fees are high and they take a percentage of every dollar you make as well as occasionally withholding your payment under some circumstances (money you need for capital) for weeks. If you're dealing in Canadian Dollars they'll screw you on the exchange rate too and you need a bank account to put all the burlap sacks with dollar signs on them full of money in.

Most importantly you will probably need a day job (almost all of us have one) or other source of income as you can't sustain yourself or your family long term on this alone unless you are selling a lot of pedals consistently over a long period of time and you need to balance your work/family/pedal builder life and have time to do all the administration duties of owning a business like emails, finances, inventory, ordering etc. If someone has delusions of grandeur of making it rich building pedals with legions of fanboys they need their head checked and their soldering iron taken away from them.

It is a lot of fun though and I build because I truly enjoy it, the profit is a bonus.
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

Hey Acehole, there's more than $2.97 that goes into a boutique pedal. Check this post from a prominent builder over on the Gear Page discussing profit margins of boutique brands:

While true, the $2.97 is a euphemism for the horde of other dirt boxes that can do (while not exactly) the same thing, for way way less.

Have you ever heard the Walmart/Victoria Secret/La Perla lecture? Apparently not. Bottom line; It cost between $0.57 and $1.73 to make a thong at the aforementioned stores. Said thongs sell for between $2 and $50. All for the the roughly equivalent $1 piece of but floss. And sometimes, the cheaper ones actually look better! And if no one told you, and there was no label, you wouldn't know or care.


Fantastic business example! And Stomp boxes are VERY much the same, and this thread has a perfect example.

Not saying custom business isn't expensive. Margins and volume baby....
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

While true, the $2.97 is a euphemism for the horde of other dirt boxes that can do (while not exactly) the same thing, for way way less.

Have you ever heard the Walmart/Victoria Secret/La Perla lecture? Apparently not. Bottom line; It cost between $0.57 and $1.73 to make a thong at the aforementioned stores. Said thongs sell for between $2 and $50. All for the the roughly equivalent $1 piece of but floss. And sometimes, the cheaper ones actually look better! And if no one told you, and there was no label, you wouldn't know or care.


Fantastic business example! And Stomp boxes are VERY much the same, and this thread has a perfect example.

Not saying custom business isn't expensive. Margins and volume baby....


You're not telling me anything I don't already know. It seems as though you ignored my point, thought - boutique builders and small companies have to cover more costs than just the components that make up a pedal.

I buy from companies like Catalinbread, Analogman, Basic Audio, and Diamond because I like knowing that my money is going to a better place than if I bought a Boss, MXR/Dunlop, or an Ibanez pedal. None of these companies have million dollar CEO salaries to pay. These guys don't live extravagantly, as some might think based on the prices of their products. I like that by buying a Sunface from Analogman instead of a mass produced pedal, I am helping to put his kid through college, or helping to pay for his employee's health insurance.


To the OP - sorry to derail your thread. I just can't stand it when idiots spout off about pedals that they think are overpriced just because they could build the same thing for $20 (you couldn't, by the way. Try it.) I'll shut up now.

Anyway - happy NPD! How are you liking it? The riot has intrigued me for a long time.
 
Last edited:
Re: Cheap pedal score

neat! I wanted the joyo crunch for awhile. Read some reviews that said it sounded a bit worse than the real deal, and clips were just so-so, hence I never followed through.

I thought they were some type of metal housing - are they plastic?
 
Last edited:
Re: Cheap pedal score

You're not telling me anything I don't already know. It seems as though you ignored my point, thought - boutique builders and small companies have to cover more costs than just the components that make up a pedal.

I buy from companies like Catalinbread, Analogman, Basic Audio, and Diamond because I like knowing that my money is going to a better place than if I bought a Boss, MXR/Dunlop, or an Ibanez pedal. None of these companies have million dollar CEO salaries to pay. These guys don't live extravagantly, as some might think based on the prices of their products. I like that by buying a Sunface from Analogman instead of a mass produced pedal, I am helping to put his kid through college, or helping to pay for his employee's health insurance.


To the OP - sorry to derail your thread. I just can't stand it when idiots spout off about pedals that they think are overpriced just because they could build the same thing for $20 (you couldn't, by the way. Try it.) I'll shut up now.

Anyway - happy NPD! How are you liking it? The riot has intrigued me for a long time
.

No problem bro. I myself have bought a few boutique pedals and I do think I post it here everytime I do. So far, I've owned 4 Barber pedals and 2 Lovepedals and I've tried a couple of other pedals as well. All were built like a tank, unlike this Joyo pedal. If I had the cash to buy the Suhr Riot, I would have done it. Seriously, I'm a snob when it comes to pedals.

I like the sound of this pedal. Definitely in the high gain 80s rock/metal territory. Doesn't sound fizzy when the tone control is set high. You hear a clear biting tone, but not fizzy. That being said, the pedal snob in me was really blown away by this pedal. I did not like the other Joyo pedals that I've tried. This was the one that really caught my ears. And it works well with my rig too, so I'm a happy camper here. :friday:
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

neat! I wanted the joyo crunch for awhile. Read some reviews that said it sounded a bit worse than the real deal, and clips were just so-so, hence I never followed through.

I thought they were some type of metal housing - are they plastic?


I never did like the Joyo Crunch. The MI Audio Crunchbox definitely sounds better.

The housing is aluminum, but I'm not entirely sure of this. :scratchch It's very light, and the housing is a bit thin compared to the usual housing that pedal builders use.
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

I have a Joyo JF-06 Vintage Phase on the way. I'll let you know how I get on with it!
 
Re: Cheap pedal score

I never did like the Joyo Crunch. The MI Audio Crunchbox definitely sounds better.

The housing is aluminum, but I'm not entirely sure of this. :scratchch It's very light, and the housing is a bit thin compared to the usual housing that pedal builders use.

Thanks for the info!
 
A-101: despite your litany of costs, getting started building pedals isn't expensive relatively. Compared to building amps or guitars, making pedals costs next to nothing.

I admire guys who can sell $10 or $20 of parts for over $200, but don't tell me they don't have a decent profit margin. Of course for every pedal dude who makes it, there probably are 50 more with neat designs who don't make it and 200 more who just don't have the talent.

Luck is a nasty lady and it takes a special ear in addition to everything else to be successful in the pedal business.

Respectfully,
Chip
 
Back
Top