Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

[Alderfan]

OK, so I've decided to change the p'ups in my MIA Strat and go for Antiquity II Surfers & an SSL6 in the bridge but I need to try and sort out what tone capacitors to select to match these pickups and hopefully get me somewhere near my fave tones (Hendrix/Knopfler/Gilmour).

My 5 way will be wired as follows: 1 - B (Tone 2 - CTS 250k with 'No Load' option), 2 - B/M (Tone 2), 3 - M (Tone 1 - CTS 250k), 4 - M/N (Tone 1), 5 - N (Tone 1). I'm also gonna fit a treble bleed kit to the volume pot, a callaham trem block and swap strings to GHS Boomers (9 - 42).

For the Antiquity II Surfers (Neck & RW/RP Middle) I'm looking for a warm vintage (think clean Hendrix) tone - so would a 0.047mf cap be about right?
Or would 0.033mf be better - so I could start off fairly bright and roll down from there?

The SSL56 in the Bridge will (from what I've heard) have less treble than other 'vintage' pups (which I like) but I don't want to hamper it further by fitting the wrong size capacitor - so would a 0.022mf give me a range of tone options without getting too muddy? I'll always have the 'No-Load' option on Tone 2, if I want it brighter still.

Is it worth paying the extra for Cornell Dibilier/Hovlands or am I best to stick with Sprague Orange Drops?

Thanks,

Mark


PS: Before I actually order the P'ups, can anybody confirm whether the pickup covers on the Ant II Surfers can simply be replaced with standard white Fender covers?

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

there was a thread last spring comparing the
ceramic
paper in oil (PIO)
the mylar (Dijon)
and some others
5 different types as I recall

there were sound clips of each with the same guitar
real one to one test

some could hear a slight difference between the different types
most could not

with that said the price is from about 10 bucks each for PIO's
to about a nickel each for ceramics

at Mojo there are dramatic price differences

I puts some of these Vitamin T PIO's in my RG4 at about 5 bucks each

I bought a dozen of these ceramics for future builds at a quarter each

most folks like the orange drops at about a buck each

they also have the volume mod that preserves the highs as you roll down the volume
its about 2 bucks

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

Is it worth paying the extra for Cornell Dibilier/Hovlands or am I best to stick with Sprague Orange Drops?

Use the cheapest plastic capacitors you can find. You will hear no difference between them and any other plastic cap of the same measured capacitance.

Capacitor composition is an audible factor in active high-voltage audio circuits (like your amp); it's not in low-voltage passive bleeder circuits.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

I like the 100 volt rated Orange Drops...or the CDE Maroon caps(Cornell Dublier)..Caps in a guitar circuit(as mentioned) shunt highend to ground...Just use a decent cap and rock on! Values make alot of difference,but in my opinion,brands don't..

 

[Invader09]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

The best capacitor is no capacitor

 

[MikeM]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92G-jw4TqS4&feature=player_embedded

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92G-jw4TqS4&feature=player_embedded

Did this guy actually check and match the ACTUAL capacitances of the individual capacitors?

If not, this is a totally meaningless exhibition as production caps will vary appreciably right off the line and the capacitance will change (often radically) over time on old stuff "found in a drawer."

But note that there wasn't appreciable difference in any case, even with degraded and value-shifted components.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

when I watched the video
the only noticeable difference was when going from the .022 to the .033

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

when I watched the video
the only noticeable difference was when going from the .022 to the .033

Which proves that physics is right after all. :wink:

But it would have been better if he'd done this right.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

Which proves that physics is right after all. :wink:

But it would have been better if he'd done this right.

I dont think he did it wrong
maybe not the way you would have
but it made a fair comparison
which is what he was aiming at

if you think if could have been done in a more objective way then
I shall await your results and
youtube video documentation

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

I dont think he did it wrong
maybe not the way you would have
but it made a fair comparison

No, he simply did it wrong. There were a number of things wrong with his protocol, but mainly...

Here's why:

Capacitance is what effects the tone, obviously -- that's why you use either a .033mFd or a .047mFd cap in the first place, right?

OK. Even on fresh production straight from the factory there is typical +/-10% tolerance, which means that between any two examples of the caps, there can be from 0% up to a total 20% spread in their actual values. I just checked the first random couple of identical 10% caps from my drawer and the spread was 14%.

In an audio circuit, that can be distinctly audible.

Never mind that old caps degrade and the spread can be go way out of spec, making a nominally .033mFd cap actually measure closer to a .022mFd or .047mFd cap's rated tolerance range.

So, if your ".033mFd" cap is actually .027mFd or .042mFd, what is it that you think you're testing?

So -- obviously -- if you haven't actually matched the components to a fairly narrow standard, you've utterly wasted your time. Any audible differences are clearly more likely to be attributable to capacitance cumulative error spread than anything else.

Worse, you've wasted the time of those persons watching you make a fool of yourself. :wink:

What's not to understand?

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

as I said I await your results
Good Luck

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

as I said I await your results
Good Luck

Wait, like I should waste my time laboriously demonstrating the obvious to gristleheads?

This test has already been done here by someone else in a more meaningful way a couple of years back. The gristleheads still wanted those $11 caps even after they saw and heard and admitted (!) they made no difference. There's no helping or educating people who are that willfully stupid.

To replicate the guy's YouTube test in a meaningful manner would take two people to do properly and I don't have the help. If I did, I'd use that help on my roofing project. :wink:

Even though the guy blew it on procedural rigor, what he did demonstrate is that even in a sloppy test he couldn't make meaningful audio differences appear between capacitors of differing composition. QED.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

it is much easier to stand to one side and critic someone's results
than to put forth effort

thats why I will simply go with what is documented then some random critic by someone unprepared to recreate or correct the supposed fallacies

stand and point

I've met your kind before

your not smarter than he is
just lazier

 

[Bezmotivnik]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

it is much easier to stand to one side and critic someone's results
than to put forth effort

thats why I will simply go with what is documented then some random critic by someone unprepared to recreate or correct the supposed fallacies

stand and point

I've met your kind before

your not smarter than he is
just lazier

OK so..help me out here, Einstein: Where is the flaw in my above criticism?

If I'm wrong, tell me where.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

that would take an effort
and like you I am too lazy to try
you are wrong

thats all I'm gonna say on that

 

[PLVTONIVS FILIVS]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

The Invader neck has a little ceramic disc capacitor inside to tame the bass. If Duncan uses ceramic then they should be good enough, right?

 

[Alderfan]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

Guys (ehdwuld/Bezmotivnik),

I was just asking for a little insight on cap sizes and brands - ideally relative to the Duncan Ant II & SSL6 p'ups that I hope to fit to my Strat and if anyone here knows whether the covers can be swapped for standard Fender ones....

I knew the capacitor size/brand elements of the question might lead to replies coloured a little by personal views and opinions but I didn't expect World War Three!!

Thank you for your views but if you have a gripe with each other then either get your gloves on and get in the ring, or if not then accept that other people have a right to a different opinion and leave it at that!!

Two elements of my original question remain unanswered but I think I'll try another forum, hopefully one where the respondents act like adults, respect other people's right to an alternate opinion and don't resort to infighting on the OP's thread!!

 

[MikeM]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

Wow. Firstly, EHD, interesting, I could clearly hear subtle differences between them, especially with the tone all the way up, except on the full chord test.

Not even going to bothering responding to Bezmotivnik's trolling. Children will be children.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Choosing Capacitors - Size & Brand (any advice)?

Alderfan
Excuse me
I apologize

as for the covers

there are two sizes

the stacked singles use a shorter cover and the true singles use one a bit taller