Jeffrec
New member
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
CHIME!!!!!
Yes, Scott is right, I've been chasing this tone for years (taking into account the major tone factor in Clapton's hands). I agree with Lew, there's something in the midrange of his SG tone that's hard to describe, but it's where the unique tone comes from. Watch the CREAM DVD where Clapton is sitting in front of a Marshall stack & demonstrating his techniques on the SG. It's THE tone I've been after. I would say that it's worth experimenting with a '59 or Seth. on the other hand, I have a C-5 in my SG/LP reissue and can get pretty close to that tone. The CC does it, but with more mids than Clapton's SG sound.
My discussion with MJ about a pup she made for Warren Haynes, that is supposed to be based on Clapton's SG bridge pup, was helpful. She said they used an Alnico-2 magnet, which puzzled me because I would have thought that the '64 SG Standard Clapton used in Cream would have had an alnico-5 in it (which is why I thought of the SD '59 pup). I wasn't able find out whether she actually inspected Clapton's pickup, which would have been the deciding factor for me.
Jeff
Wattage said:
CHIME!!!!!
Yes, Scott is right, I've been chasing this tone for years (taking into account the major tone factor in Clapton's hands). I agree with Lew, there's something in the midrange of his SG tone that's hard to describe, but it's where the unique tone comes from. Watch the CREAM DVD where Clapton is sitting in front of a Marshall stack & demonstrating his techniques on the SG. It's THE tone I've been after. I would say that it's worth experimenting with a '59 or Seth. on the other hand, I have a C-5 in my SG/LP reissue and can get pretty close to that tone. The CC does it, but with more mids than Clapton's SG sound.
My discussion with MJ about a pup she made for Warren Haynes, that is supposed to be based on Clapton's SG bridge pup, was helpful. She said they used an Alnico-2 magnet, which puzzled me because I would have thought that the '64 SG Standard Clapton used in Cream would have had an alnico-5 in it (which is why I thought of the SD '59 pup). I wasn't able find out whether she actually inspected Clapton's pickup, which would have been the deciding factor for me.
Jeff
Thames
Great White Malice
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Aaaah... THAT tone! Probably the most musical tone I ever heard in my whole life!! :blackeye:
:32:
Has a lot to do with gear, but with technique too. Listen and check out his fingers, how he "pushes" the strings, the sweet liquid picking, subtle bends... incredible!! Now THAT's what I call "Clapton-quality".
Jeffrec said:
Aaaah... THAT tone! Probably the most musical tone I ever heard in my whole life!! :blackeye:
:32:
Has a lot to do with gear, but with technique too. Listen and check out his fingers, how he "pushes" the strings, the sweet liquid picking, subtle bends... incredible!! Now THAT's what I call "Clapton-quality".
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Yep. IMO, Eric Clapton invented the modern overdriven rock guitar tone everyone plays with these days. And his vibrato is about as elegent as it gets. Touch is so important and Clapton has the touch.
I know the roots of his style comes from blues players like Freddie King, Albert King and BB King...but Clapton made that style into the rock style we all play with today.
Boogie amps with master volume controls were invented to get that sound Clapton got with his old Gibsons overdriving a loud Marshall.
When Jimi Hendrix landed in England, what guitarist did he want to meet? Eric Clapton.
Lew
Yep. IMO, Eric Clapton invented the modern overdriven rock guitar tone everyone plays with these days. And his vibrato is about as elegent as it gets. Touch is so important and Clapton has the touch.
I know the roots of his style comes from blues players like Freddie King, Albert King and BB King...but Clapton made that style into the rock style we all play with today.
Boogie amps with master volume controls were invented to get that sound Clapton got with his old Gibsons overdriving a loud Marshall.
When Jimi Hendrix landed in England, what guitarist did he want to meet? Eric Clapton.
Lew
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Boy...I always thought that SG was older than that and that it was one of those Les Paul/SG's....not a '64 but more like a '61. But that's just what I thought from looking at it closely at the Grande Ballroom in '67 when Cream played there. John Sinclair (manager of the MC5) was an aquaintence of mine and let me get right up there and check out Clapton's Marshalls and gear too. The guitar wasn't onstage yet...Clapton carried the painted SG with him onto the stage. But I watched Cream's set from very close up. I can't say that I clearly remember seeing "Les Paul" on the pickguard between the neck pickup and fingerboard, but I always assumed that's what that SG was.
In any event, when I plug my Duncan 59's into my Marshall I get close to that tone.
But like Jeff says, if you know the licks and have the touch, you can get a pretty cool Clapton/Cream tone with just about any good humbucker: a2 Seth Lover, Antiquity and Custom Custom......or a5 59B, C5, etc.
Personally, its easiest for me with the 59B or 59 Trembucker.
Lew
Jeffrec said:
Boy...I always thought that SG was older than that and that it was one of those Les Paul/SG's....not a '64 but more like a '61. But that's just what I thought from looking at it closely at the Grande Ballroom in '67 when Cream played there. John Sinclair (manager of the MC5) was an aquaintence of mine and let me get right up there and check out Clapton's Marshalls and gear too. The guitar wasn't onstage yet...Clapton carried the painted SG with him onto the stage. But I watched Cream's set from very close up. I can't say that I clearly remember seeing "Les Paul" on the pickguard between the neck pickup and fingerboard, but I always assumed that's what that SG was.
In any event, when I plug my Duncan 59's into my Marshall I get close to that tone.
But like Jeff says, if you know the licks and have the touch, you can get a pretty cool Clapton/Cream tone with just about any good humbucker: a2 Seth Lover, Antiquity and Custom Custom......or a5 59B, C5, etc.
Personally, its easiest for me with the 59B or 59 Trembucker.
Lew
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Great photo! Compare that Les Paul to the one in my post #12. You can see the double cream neck pickup in that first Les paul and I'd suspect that the photo above is the second Les Paul that EC borrowed after his first LP, the one used for the Bluesbreaker sessions, was stolen.
You know, Seymour calls his '59 humbucker with alnico 5 magnet a '59 because he apparantly feels that by '59 Gibson was using alnico 5 more often in Gibson humbuckers than alnico 2. This is funny though: when these guitars were accessable to us in the late 60's and they could be purchased for under a grand, I always thought the '58 I had was a better sounding guitar than my '59! But I also felt like any 50's Gibson with humbuckers had a warmer, fuller and ballsier tone than anything from the 60's...even the very early 60's. I paid about $400 to $800 for all of the 50's Les Pauls I owned. Except for my '56...that one I traded a Fender Jaguar for. I don't own any of those guitars any more though. Lew
Great photo! Compare that Les Paul to the one in my post #12. You can see the double cream neck pickup in that first Les paul and I'd suspect that the photo above is the second Les Paul that EC borrowed after his first LP, the one used for the Bluesbreaker sessions, was stolen.
You know, Seymour calls his '59 humbucker with alnico 5 magnet a '59 because he apparantly feels that by '59 Gibson was using alnico 5 more often in Gibson humbuckers than alnico 2. This is funny though: when these guitars were accessable to us in the late 60's and they could be purchased for under a grand, I always thought the '58 I had was a better sounding guitar than my '59! But I also felt like any 50's Gibson with humbuckers had a warmer, fuller and ballsier tone than anything from the 60's...even the very early 60's. I paid about $400 to $800 for all of the 50's Les Pauls I owned. Except for my '56...that one I traded a Fender Jaguar for. I don't own any of those guitars any more though. Lew
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Jeffrec
New member
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Lew,
I always thought it was a '61 , but there's an article on the cream site "Those Were the Days",(I forget the web address...Bluemoutain something), where they illustrate the difference between the '61 and '64. The '64 has more screws in the pickguard. eiether way it's a very cool guitar.
You're absolutely right about the Clapton tone and pup mix. Most all of my lead stuff is Clapton based, so it's going to sound that way. Also, as Thames mentioned, if you watch the Cream video, you can see how he uses his fingers. I noticed that he uses his middle finger for vibrato. I always used my ring finger, but after watching the video, I switched, and it does make a difference. Seems to give me more control.
Jeff
Lewguitar said:
Lew,
I always thought it was a '61 , but there's an article on the cream site "Those Were the Days",(I forget the web address...Bluemoutain something), where they illustrate the difference between the '61 and '64. The '64 has more screws in the pickguard. eiether way it's a very cool guitar.
You're absolutely right about the Clapton tone and pup mix. Most all of my lead stuff is Clapton based, so it's going to sound that way. Also, as Thames mentioned, if you watch the Cream video, you can see how he uses his fingers. I noticed that he uses his middle finger for vibrato. I always used my ring finger, but after watching the video, I switched, and it does make a difference. Seems to give me more control.
Jeff
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Jeffrec
New member
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Lew & company,
Here's the Cream website that discusses the '61 SG/LP vs the '64 SG Standard:
http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/
Have fun. It's a great site. Lots of good photos.
Jeff
Lew & company,
Here's the Cream website that discusses the '61 SG/LP vs the '64 SG Standard:
http://twtd.bluemountains.net.au/cream/
Have fun. It's a great site. Lots of good photos.
Jeff
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
You're right. here's a pic from that page of Clapton's SG with the vibrato still semi intact. Clearly it is not the side to side vibrato you'd find on a '61.
You're right. here's a pic from that page of Clapton's SG with the vibrato still semi intact. Clearly it is not the side to side vibrato you'd find on a '61.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
According to that site, Clapton used a '60 Les Paul for the Bluesbreaker sessions. By '60, I'd guess the Gibson pafs they were using were alnico 5 almost exclusively. Interesting.
Clapton always said he couldn't find another Les Paul with quite that same tone of his LP that was stolen. Tho he did finally find one recently that he says he likes as much. I wonder if the other 58 and 59 Les Pauls he used for Fresh Cream had alnico 2 magnet pafs and he prefers the alnico 5 humbuckers that were probably in his '60 Les Paul and '63 SG?
I've also read that the amp Clapton used for the Bluesbreaker sessions may have had alnico G12 Celestions in it....same speakers the Beatles used in thier Vox AC-30's. Very differant tone than ceramic magnet Celestions he used in the Marshall Plexis he used with Cream.
According to that site, Clapton used a '60 Les Paul for the Bluesbreaker sessions. By '60, I'd guess the Gibson pafs they were using were alnico 5 almost exclusively. Interesting.
Clapton always said he couldn't find another Les Paul with quite that same tone of his LP that was stolen. Tho he did finally find one recently that he says he likes as much. I wonder if the other 58 and 59 Les Pauls he used for Fresh Cream had alnico 2 magnet pafs and he prefers the alnico 5 humbuckers that were probably in his '60 Les Paul and '63 SG?
I've also read that the amp Clapton used for the Bluesbreaker sessions may have had alnico G12 Celestions in it....same speakers the Beatles used in thier Vox AC-30's. Very differant tone than ceramic magnet Celestions he used in the Marshall Plexis he used with Cream.
Curly
Moe's Bluesman
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
I did a search on this once, and remember reading a comment from Peter Green that Eric's LP had a slimmer neck than Peter's '59. Peter said his '59 had a neck like a tree trunk, and Eric's was more playable.
I agree with this.Lewguitar said:
I did a search on this once, and remember reading a comment from Peter Green that Eric's LP had a slimmer neck than Peter's '59. Peter said his '59 had a neck like a tree trunk, and Eric's was more playable.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
So the Peter Green Les Paul, the one he got endless sustain with on SUPERNATURAL with John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers and the same guitar that Gary Moore uses to play to many notes with today :laugh2: is a '59? Interesting.
And the Les Paul EC used with the Bluesbreakers was a '60? Also interesting.
Both the '59 and the '60 could have been alnico 5 pickups. And the SG almost certainly had alnico 5 pickups.
And the other Les Pauls that EC used with Cream were probably 58, 59 or 60.
I wonder if the borrowed Les Paul used for Fresh Cream could have been a '58 and if that was the case, would have been more likely to have alnico 2 pickups...and that might be one reason for the differant tone I hear on those solos?
Curly said:I agree with this.
I did a search on this once, and remember reading a comment from Peter Green that Eric's LP had a slimmer neck than Peter's '59. Peter said his '59 had a neck like a tree trunk, and Eric's was more playable.
So the Peter Green Les Paul, the one he got endless sustain with on SUPERNATURAL with John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers and the same guitar that Gary Moore uses to play to many notes with today :laugh2: is a '59? Interesting.
And the Les Paul EC used with the Bluesbreakers was a '60? Also interesting.
Both the '59 and the '60 could have been alnico 5 pickups. And the SG almost certainly had alnico 5 pickups.
And the other Les Pauls that EC used with Cream were probably 58, 59 or 60.
I wonder if the borrowed Les Paul used for Fresh Cream could have been a '58 and if that was the case, would have been more likely to have alnico 2 pickups...and that might be one reason for the differant tone I hear on those solos?
T
TheProphet
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Owned! ... If anything I know that my cartoon fan brother in arms MRID would have got that one
mrid said:
Owned! ... If anything I know that my cartoon fan brother in arms MRID would have got that one
gOgIver
New member
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Cool! And from what I've read Clapton had a lot of love for Jimi too and even bought him a lefty Strat the week before Jimi died, so Clapton did not get the chance to to give it to him. I'd love to have seen Jimi play a Strat, just one time ,like the rest of us do! :laugh2:
Lewguitar said:
Cool! And from what I've read Clapton had a lot of love for Jimi too and even bought him a lefty Strat the week before Jimi died, so Clapton did not get the chance to to give it to him. I'd love to have seen Jimi play a Strat, just one time ,like the rest of us do! :laugh2:
Jeffrec
New member
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Curly,
I read the same thing. Recently, Gary Moore was quoted as saying that PG's Lp is hard to play because of the neck. Peter said the same thing, in that you had to fight with it a bit....looks like both Peter and Gary came out on top of those bouts :laugh2:
Jeff
Curly said:I agree with this.
I did a search on this once, and remember reading a comment from Peter Green that Eric's LP had a slimmer neck than Peter's '59. Peter said his '59 had a neck like a tree trunk, and Eric's was more playable.
Curly,
I read the same thing. Recently, Gary Moore was quoted as saying that PG's Lp is hard to play because of the neck. Peter said the same thing, in that you had to fight with it a bit....looks like both Peter and Gary came out on top of those bouts :laugh2:
Jeff
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Been listening to the Bluesbreakers CD and Fresh Cream too.
IMO, we're hearing an alnico 5 bridge pickup on the Bluesbreakers album/CD and alnico 2 on Fresh Cream and then back to alnico 5 on Disraeli Gears and Wheels of Fire.
The guitar on the Bluesbreakers album just doesn't sound as quacky in the mids as alnico 2 sounds to me...but that'd by the one guitar I'm less sure of.
Still, if it was a '60 Les Paul, there's a good chance those were alnico 5 pickups by 1960.
Lew
Been listening to the Bluesbreakers CD and Fresh Cream too.
IMO, we're hearing an alnico 5 bridge pickup on the Bluesbreakers album/CD and alnico 2 on Fresh Cream and then back to alnico 5 on Disraeli Gears and Wheels of Fire.
The guitar on the Bluesbreakers album just doesn't sound as quacky in the mids as alnico 2 sounds to me...but that'd by the one guitar I'm less sure of.
Still, if it was a '60 Les Paul, there's a good chance those were alnico 5 pickups by 1960.
Lew
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Clapton's Tone with Cream: Alnico 2 vs Alnico 5
Yes. It was my first good electric guitar. Had the choice of a '64 Jaguar or '64 Strat. The Jaguar had more buttons and switches so I went for the Jaguar. :smack: Hated it! :laugh2:
The salesman tried to talk me into the Strat...I should have listened to him.
Lew
gOgIver said:
Yes. It was my first good electric guitar. Had the choice of a '64 Jaguar or '64 Strat. The Jaguar had more buttons and switches so I went for the Jaguar. :smack: Hated it! :laugh2:
The salesman tried to talk me into the Strat...I should have listened to him.
Lew
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