Classic Stack combinations - split vs not split

[beaubrummels]

The drawings that came with the Classic Stacks show both normal 5 way, and super switch 5 way where the Stacks themselves are split to combine humbucking in positions 2 and 4. Has anyone done this and does it get more or less quack one way or the other? Or does the volume change significantly one way or the other? (I'm wondering why bother, unless it's a much better 'Fender' sound). Thanks.

 

[beaubrummels]

Well, I guess it's almost moot for the near time being. (Stacks don't fit in my Jackson. Have to try them in one of my Strats later.)

 

[jeremy]

i did split the stacks in a friends guitar, the first time i had wired up the cs+ models, other than some beta test models. i did notice a difference in the notch positions, but it wasnt enough for me to bother with adding that wiring to my guitar when i wired it up with stacks. i also dont use those notch positions as much as some other strat players

 

[Mincer]

I split one so it hum cancels with a Five Two. It quacks great and is dead quiet. I wouldn't bother to split to combine with another Classic Stack. Two CSs together quack just fine.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

I found both my Fender Gen4 noiseless in my MiM Tele and my Vintage Tele stack in one of my DIYs to be slightly louder split than not. I suspect the volume drop is due to the extra ohms in the second coil. It doesn't add much, if anything, to the output. I presume it's because it's too far from the magnetic field, which,, remember, diminisheds by 1/radius squared. So the second coil adds ohms just like putting a resistor in series with a single coil, or, indeed, turning the volume knob down a touch.

I haven't tried, yet, wiring the coils in parallel instead of series. But I'm going to when I get back from my vacation. Off to Hawaii on Wednesday you see.

 

[Artie]

My experience pretty much matches Jeremy and Mincer's. When I installed my CS set, I did it with straight Strat wiring 'cause I wanted to hear them right away. They quack just like a Strat should, so I never messed with anything else. .

 

[ErikH]

I had done the same, wired them up without splitting. I did try the splitting on a previous set I had with a toggle switch and honestly, the difference between split and not was so small that I could barely tell. It wasn’t enough of a difference to wire them any other way.

In my current HSS setup, they are wired non-splitting and I don’t even split the bridge humbucker with the middle CS+. Its a WLH neck in the bridge and sounds really good in the notch position.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Last week, someone on strat-talk.com , I think, was floating the idea of using the second coil in one stacked pickup to hum cancel on the other two genuine single coils. It seemed like a good idea, but I didn't look into it further. Thoughts anyone?

 

[zionstrat]

Last week, someone on strat-talk.com , I think, was floating the idea of using the second coil in one stacked pickup to hum cancel on the other two genuine single coils. It seemed like a good idea, but I didn't look into it further. Thoughts anyone?

Well there's a whole bunch of details that keep this from being a straight for answer but here we go..

First off, a coil can really only buck noise with another coil.. it's a one-to-one relationship. Maybe you were saying to combine them two coils at a time but it looked to me like you may have been saying it could buck the other two coils and if you wired it this way it would only partially reduce hum.

Now I could be wrong on this next one because I've never tried to split this pickup, but I'm assuming both coils are active.. by this I mean that they have magnetic properties as well as a coil and aren't just dummy coils.

If that is true and these are not dummy coils, then when you combine them with coils from the other pickup, you're just wiring a two or four or neck and bridge pickup combination.

I got very very little sleep last night so I hope some of this makes sense

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

My experience us that the second coil in a a stack really doesn't add much sonically. It's below the heart of the magnetic field and quite a distance, relatively, from the strings. It's purpose is also to hum cancel, not to add to the audio signal. In fact, many of us think the second coil actually reduces the pickup output level and removes some of the sparkle due to the extra Ohms and Henrys the second coil adds in series.

Now some stacks are sealed, meaning it's difficult, if not impossible, to break out the links between the main coil and the secondary, hum canceling, coil. OTOH pickups like the SD Vintage Tele stacks, all four wires can be accessed..

So...

Let's take a typical SSS strat with two regular SD single coils and a stack. I would think the main coil in the stack would be "south up", to match the single coils, and the hum canceling coil would be a "north up". Now if you can wire the stack so the second coil comes in for P3 and P5, you'll get hum canceling, and in P2 and P4 you'll get some benefit, if not full hum canceling.

Just a thought, though, Ive no itention of trying it myself.

 

[beaubrummels]

My Classic Stack Plus' are brand new (is there just a Classic Stack, no plus? I didn't find any), mine are the sealed kind with 3 conductors, so while I can split them to humbuck with either another single, or one coil of a humbucker; I don't think I can choose which coil and do other combinations. My original question was more about the behavior of the two stacks when split vs normal just with each other. Sounds like they are just fine normal, which works for me.

To manage my split humbucker (in my HSS) rather than get tricky with the Stacks, I'm looking at maybe making my own dummy coil, a la Illitch/Suhr, or just be lazy and take apart one of my MIM Strat pickups. (Though in my experiments, it seems like I needed more turns than they have - e.g. the 7.94k coil bucked more hum than the 6.34k coil did. And neither cancelled the hum completely. Maybe need an 8k-9k coil if using single coil size geometry? I'm trying to cancel the hum on the individual coils of a Custom Custom in the bridge). This is why I was considering making my own Illitch type, because if I increase the air in the coil I can reduce the turns and resistance, keeping the tone in tact while completely bucking the hum.

I could try splitting the middle Stack to combine w/the slug of the Custom Custom and see how it goes. Unfortunately, I need to try this in another guitar as the new sealed Stacks don't fit my Jackson SL3X. I do have my MIM laying around in storage, it's routed for HSH. Need another pickguard to try it. Won't happen for a month or two at best.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

I don't think you're likely to match ohms for ohms unless you get lucky, and I would surmise its the length of the coil rather than its impedance that determines how much hum gets picked up, either by the main coil or the hum canceling one. I would also suggest a 90% hum cancelation will leave you with not much hum at all, and that you'd barely notice it, especially once you start playing.

As for the dummy coil, buy a cheap pickup off fleabay and butcher it.:beerchug:

 

[beaubrummels]

Yeah, I wasn't implying kOhms is what matters. I just meant a coil with more turns on it, like an 8k-9k would have more turns.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

^ It's a good guide, but the wire diameter, alloy, etc. play a part too. And if you over-match you'll get more hum in the dummy coil than in the real one, of course.

 

[IMENATOR]

I used to have an HSS config in my Strat with OEM PAF pro/ SSL-1/SKT-S6, I used the autosplit for notch position for noise canceling and I liked the quack in position 4. Then for some time I used to have the SSS configuration with STK-S6/SSL1/Dimarzio HS-4, the quack in position 2 was very good, a very satisfying Sultans of swing imho. This approached always saved me a few dollars by using a regular 5 way switch and a regular SSL-1, because the regular STK family is RWRP respect to regular SSL-1, how cool is that? Well, that is my personal experience.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Yup. My HSS autosplits in P2, leaving the north humbucker coil active, working in union with the south SSL-1 in the middle. I have a regular SSL-1 in the neck. I don't have a hum problem at home (see my fan club below), but if I did I would put an SSL-1 RWRP in the neck, not the middle.

 

[IMENATOR]

I don't have a hum problem at home (see my fan club below), but if I did I would put an SSL-1 RWRP in the neck, not the middle.

That is what Charvel did with their HSS

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

That is what Charvel did with their HSS

Great minds think alike... or fools never differ

 

[Mr Wolf]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but a query on this topic...

Are there any schematics to show how the dummy coil of a Classic Stack Plus can be used to pair with a regular single coil to make the latter noiseless?

Background: With guitar build that I am having built, I planned to have HSS with two Classic Stack Plus pickups, however with the way the neck join works (which extends under the neck pickup), the increased depth of the classic stack plus may cause a complication. The builder has ideas to work around this issue that we were going to discuss, however if the greater good is served by using a regular single coil in the neck to eliminate the issue entirely, it would still be good to keep things noiseless.

Thanks in advance, and sorry to hijack.

 

[uOpt]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but a query on this topic...

Are there any schematics to show how the dummy coil of a Classic Stack Plus can be used to pair with a regular single coil to make the latter noiseless?

Background: With guitar build that I am having built, I planned to have HSS with two Classic Stack Plus pickups, however with the way the neck join works (which extends under the neck pickup), the increased depth of the classic stack plus may cause a complication. The builder has ideas to work around this issue that we were going to discuss, however if the greater good is served by using a regular single coil in the neck to eliminate the issue entirely, it would still be good to keep things noiseless.

Thanks in advance, and sorry to hijack.

Using the blind coil of a stack to compensate for hum in a true single coil works, however there is a substantial sound change because the capacitance, resistance and inductance of the blind coil is added to the single coil. Unless you put 2 preamps before combining the two.