Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

[danglybanger]

...So I applied a few coats (three or four) worth of it a few days ago, almost a can's worth (Autozone Duplicolor clear, for the record). Very light coats, and I managed to get them a bit... dusty and dry in certain spots, but overall no runs, it looks level, fairly shiny, I could almost be happy with it... Just a bit of light orangepeel.

Since this is my first refin, a few questions:

1.) The can recommends that I wait 7 whole days before I apply further coats of clear (as I waited over an hour after those few clear coats which last I applied). But it seems fairly hard now. Do I REALLY need to wait those extra days, or should I be patient? I don't want it looking fine now, then doing something crazy in about a month...

2.)So how many coats of clear SHOULD there be? I'd almost like to just keep laying it on for durability's sake, can I overdo clear though? I'm going to be wetsanding, and don't want it to be easy for me to burn through...

3.) As for the orangepeel (which I expect will still be a bit visible even after further clear coats...), I've read up a bit on wetsanding... it seems scary, but it also seems like the only way to do this axe justice... What rubbing compound should I use? Also, can I apply the rubbing compound by hand, or do I really need an orbital buffer or something...

At any rate, here are a few pic of the finish in its current state... First a pretty one, in direct lighting it's difficult to see the orangepeel

Now, a pic purposely taken at the ugliest angle... the areas I've hit with the flash/lamp show off a bit of the orangepeely section (up) and a bit of the dusty section (down)

A meh pic, in its current state it's just not mirror shiny/smooth enough for me...

 

[theodie]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

The mirror shinny/smooth will come from the polish job.


Well.....I am not sure on this kind of finish but, possibly. That is how you usually bring out a nice shine. You use progressively finer compounds using a bit of pressure and heat.

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Hmm, do you have a brand of polish to recommend once I've used the (from what I've read) 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit?

I haven't read anything about adding heat... Do you just mean heat from the pressure of sanding (which I've read should be very light in the first place), or do I have to look to some outside source for heat?

I'm leaning toward waiting at least a few more days before adding any more clear... And after that I'd be scared to touch it for at least a week in terms of wetsanding.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

You can lay the clear on as thick as you want, but a thinner finish is better. Get yourself some Norton brand wet/dry paper starting with 600, then go up in stages (1000, 1200, 1500, 2000). Use the 600 to level out almost all the peel, then the finer grits to polish it up.

Soak the paper in a some water mixed with just a drop or two of liquid dishwashing soap, and then wrap the paper around a dead flat sanding block.

You will want to keep the surface wet as you sand, but you don't have to soak it or anything. Just use your fingers to drop some water/soap mix on there as you sand. You will get the feel for it right away, and will be able to tell when more water is needed.

Use circular motions with just hand pressure. You don't want to bear down it or anything, just let the paper do the work. Again, this is a "feel" thing and you will adjust as you go.

Once you get to 1500/2000, you should have a dull shine with no real noticeable sanding marks. If you see a scratch or flaw, just go back a grit and sand it out.

Once you have it ready for polish, you can use any automotive grade polishing compound. Rub it out by hand, or use a wheel.

I know this is not everything, but it gives you the basics.

Hope this helps

 

[theodie]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Hmm, do you have a brand of polish to recommend once I've used the (from what I've read) 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit?

I haven't read anything about adding heat... Do you just mean heat from the pressure of sanding (which I've read should be very light in the first place), or do I have to look to some outside source for heat?

I'm leaning toward waiting at least a few more days before adding any more clear... And after that I'd be scared to touch it for at least a week in terms of wetsanding.

I use a foam pad on a drill. I use this to apply pressure and to work the compound. This creates heat.

Now, the kinds of compound all depend on what the final sanding was done with. You can go really fine with the final sanding and just use polish. I use Stew macs polishing compounds and they work great. If I were you, I would go very fine on the final sanding then use bowling ball polish. No, I am not kidding. I am convinced alot of this stuff is about the same thing is Stew macs final polish. I recomend Brunswick High Gloss polish on a foam pad on a drill. Of, course, I have never worked with clear so, maybe the rules are different???? This is the way it is typically done though.

Here is that polish

http://www.bowlingball.com/Product/2294/froogle/info.html

Oh, not all ball polishes are the same. Some react alot differently and actually contain a slip agent. You are safe with the Brunswick I posted.



You can use this method on an existing finish to freshen it up also. Its good stuff.

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

haha, thanks everyone... I'll start all the work on the back of the guitar and experiment there before I get to work on the front

Any other advice would still be appreciated... If only I was a more avid bowler.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Oh, not all ball polishes are the same.

Pay attention to odie. He knows a lot about ball polishing.

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Pay attention to odie. He knows a lot about ball polishing.

...How the hell did I miss that one...

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

When I finished my Warmoth LP, I had the good fortune of working for 3M. As such, I got a free sample of 3M Perfect-It II compound from the sales guys. It's what auto body places use to fine polish a new car finish. Unfortunately it's not sold to the general public.

I still have tons of it, since the sample was enough to polish an entire car. I'll see if there's a way to ship it to you ... probably not though since there's probably some sort of law about shipping stuff like that across the border.

When I did the LP I did seven coats of clear, which actually isn't that much. The first coat was really light, and they got progressively heavier each time. I never saw any warning that I had to wait more than a few hours between coats. The way I did it was apply three coats, wet sand with 400, apply two coats, wet sand with 400, and apply two more coats. I then left it to harden for two weeks before I did the final polish. This is very important, because if you polish a finish that is still soft, it will eventually look dull again.

The final polish shouldn't be that scary as long as you follow these simple guidelines:

- Don't push too hard. Use a light touch.
- Use a sanding block. A 9 volt battery is perfect for this.
- Be very careful on edges, because there will be less finish there.
- Have water on hand so you can keep the sandpaper wet. Don't worry about water getting into the wood ... the finish won't let that happen unless you sand it all off (which you won't if you do as I say )
- Keep sanding until you no longer feel resistance. At first you will feel friction as you push the sandpaper across the finish. When you don't, it means you're done and it's time to move up to the next highest grit.

Start with 400, then continue on up through the grits to 2000. Remember that the smaller the grit, the more finish will be removed. Unless you really dig in, even 400 won't remove much at all, it will just flatten out the bumps. After you're done with 800, the finish should look very satin-y and it will feel very, very smooth. Savor this feeling! From 1000 and up, you really aren't removing any finish at all - you're just turning tiny scratches into extremely tiny scratches, if that makes sense. By the time you're done 2000, the finish should have a nice semi-gloss appearance.

After 2000, it's time for the rubbing compound, which is essentially equivalent to 4000 grit sandpaper. You can do it by hand with a rag (and you probably should in tight areas like the cutaway), but there is no harm in using a buffer at this stage. When I did it, I bought a sanding disc adapter for my cordless drill and a buffing disk that went over that. It worked very well. As with the other steps, don't dig in hard, and be careful on the edges. Squirt a quarter-sized blob of compound on your rag or buffer and use a circular motion. When you have adequately buffed the whole body, wipe off the excess compound with a wet rag and admire your work. It should have a nice mirror sheen by this point.

Have fun, and best of luck!

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

...thanks everyone again...

I'm going to try doing this on my car if it comes out well enough on the guitar :laugh2:

EDIT: Just wet sanded down the current finish at 600 (probably not enough), sprayed another coat of clear (with a bit more finesse than the last coat)... Already looks worlds better, I'm thinking I'll next take it down once more with 600, wet sand, add another coat of clear, then do the final run up to polishing... And be done

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

...So this happened.

Well, it's making a much better job at that whole light reflecting deal... Not perfect yet. I suppose I have the tools now though to make it so however... I probably should have been more aggressive with the wet sanding, but I'm quickly learning that refinishing is a bit more forgiving than it at first appeared... Leading me to be more comfortable with venturing into the realm of experimentation (hopefully not idiocy)...

 

[SonofaMitch]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

man thats a sick colour Tele-Jazz I Love it! can't wait to see the turnout on this one!

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Duplicolor Orange Mist (for "import cars", apparently), available at Autozone, or whatever they probably own in Ontario... I picked it because it reminds me of a Nissan 350Z color, but I don't know if it is...

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Duplicolor Orange Mist (for "import cars", apparently), available at Autozone, or whatever they probably own in Ontario... I picked it because it reminds me of a Nissan 350Z color, but I don't know if it is...

Canadian Tire sells Duplicolor here.

Looks great btw.

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

...are they the place that gives away free beef or something? My friend was telling me about them.

 

[SonofaMitch]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

haha, no free beef, it's just a big "everything, but stocks mostly auto/tools/"Man stuff" store

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Canadian Tire (aka CanTire, CT, Crap Tire, Crap 'n Trash) is an auto parts/garden/sporting goods/camping/hardware/random junk store. I don't recall them ever giving away beef, though most of them have a hot dog cart outside on the weekend. Their main claims to fame are:

1. Having terrible merchandise
2. Giving out Canadian Tire Money (one cent per dollar spent), which looks eerily similar to real money except for the crazy Scotsman on the back. It is primarily used by college students for leaving as a tip when the service is awful.

 

[Redmist]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

If you don't wait for at least a month before final sanding and polishing, then it will still cure and leave you with a less than mirror finish.
Sure, when you polish it now it will look like glass, but after a while, it will cure down uneven again.
The longer you leave it between coats, the less this will happen.
The thicker the finish, the more it will happen.
In a few months, you will see what I mean.
I haven't finished many guitars, but I used to customise a lot of bike tanks.
Thankfully, I was able to oven cure them to save a lot of time.
Not with wood of course.

 

[danglybanger]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Yeah, I'd read up on that a bit too... So after the next clear, I'll do the wiring, string it up and etc. for testing, stretch that out over a month before I take it apart for the final

 

[Redmist]

Re: Clearcoat/Wetsanding general refin Questions...

Thin is all the rage nowadays.
You can always go back and put on more coats anytime you want, but I know the impatience of wanting to have it finished all nice and shiny.
Seriously, the longer you wait between coats, the less time it takes at the end. The problem is the solvent trying to make its way from a base coat to the surface, through a thick finish.
Enjoy - there's nothing like the final buff to mirror like finish for that satisfied feeling.