Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

[Chickenwings]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

to me ssl1's and 2s sound like all of the good points of both 69s and fat 50s combined but with none of the drawbacks.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

I apologize I think I may have misread your post... Did you mean just pushing the magnet out a bit or swapping the short one out for a longer one?

I guess just pushing it up from the bottom a little. I don't know where I would get another beveled magnet pole piece like the ones in the 69's to replace it with, and completely removing it might let the wire collapse inward and risk breaking it when the new one was pushed through.

 

[SJ318]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

To firebirdguy72,With all due respect- Please read this carefully, so you understand I mean good, not bad, like you accused me of.
I am never condescending. I don't even know what you are talking about. No one pissed in my cornflakes. Until I read your post. If you noticed Dr. Newkenstein said the same thing I just said. It is exactly your response that makes me frustrated. I already said if you don't have room, make room, which I did on strats in the old days as it didn't hurt the guitar (they were cheap) and sure made it sound better. Also in my universal route I did have have to remove some wood for the neck pickup. But it is a Warmouth, not a relic.
If your strat has value per age or whatever, don't do it. Otherwise it works, without breaking anything in the pickup. For FREE.
I do this because I LOVE THE '69 pickups and don't like any of the other many SC's I've tried there, and that is MANY! I have never had a personal beef with anyone here and don't want one. I am to old to fight on line. AND I DID ANSWER HIS QUESTION. HE HAS A PROBLEM with the STAGGER. so I GAVE HIM AN ANSWER to that PROBLEM. I DON'T WANT a beef with anyone and I knew someone would diss my idea without even thinking about it, as you clearly DID NOT or you wouldn't have claimed I DIN'T ADDRESS His problem. I MOST CERTAINLY did.
If Fender would fix that ridiculous stagger I wouldn't need to bother. By the way, I have my strat wired, very easily, just by exchanging the mid and neck pup so the neck is now the "69, when I go from the humbucker bridge, A Jazz Neck, nice and high frequency, to the next position (2 or 4, depending how you count it) I get the Jazz + the neck '69 and it is the best combo of Hbucker and Single coil I have EVER heard. It even quacks, for god's sake. I get tired defending the obvious. Mr. B read it. Understood it. Apparently, you did not.
Steve Buffington.

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

To firebirdguy72,With all due respect- Please read this carefully, so you understand I mean good, not bad, like you accused me of.
I am never condescending. I don't even know what you are talking about. No one pissed in my cornflakes. Until I read your post. If you noticed Dr. Newkenstein said the same thing I just said. It is exactly your response that makes me frustrated. I already said if you don't have room, make room, which I did on strats in the old days as it didn't hurt the guitar (they were cheap) and sure made it sound better. Also in my universal route I did have have to remove some wood for the neck pickup. But it is a Warmouth, not a relic.
If your strat has value per age or whatever, don't do it. Otherwise it works, without breaking anything in the pickup. For FREE.
I do this because I LOVE THE '69 pickups and don't like any of the other many SC's I've tried there, and that is MANY! I have never had a personal beef with anyone here and don't want one. I am to old to fight on line. AND I DID ANSWER HIS QUESTION. HE HAS A PROBLEM with the STAGGER. so I GAVE HIM AN ANSWER to that PROBLEM. I DON'T WANT a beef with anyone and I knew someone would diss my idea without even thinking about it, as you clearly DID NOT or you wouldn't have claimed I DIN'T ADDRESS His problem. I MOST CERTAINLY did.
If Fender would fix that ridiculous stagger I wouldn't need to bother. By the way, I have my strat wired, very easily, just by exchanging the mid and neck pup so the neck is now the "69, when I go from the humbucker bridge, A Jazz Neck, nice and high frequency, to the next position (2 or 4, depending how you count it) I get the Jazz + the neck '69 and it is the best combo of Hbucker and Single coil I have EVER heard. It even quacks, for god's sake. I get tired defending the obvious. Mr. B read it. Understood it. Apparently, you did not.
Steve Buffington.

You may not think you were being condescending but to me I felt you were... You said you were tired of not being listened to and frankly you could have easily left that part out... that has nothing to do with the info you posted. That was the part I was talking about. Why add that? It has no bearing on the info you posted. And to me you just came off that you were complaining about how you feel your ideas are not appreciated. I won't be replying again because this is completely unnecessary... To the OP I apologize that the thread went a little off track because of my original post...

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Quite alright. Everyone has provided valuable info. I pushed the pole pieces for the B and high E string up from the bottom, and it did fix the balance problem. It looks like fender could make a regular set without the useless vintage stagger for those of us who just want to play and sound good, and then they could make a "Master Custom Shop" vintage correct set and charge an extra 100 dollars for them. I'm all about vintage tone, but not vintage design problems.

While I was in there, however, I discovered that my strat's body is cracked right where the bushing for the high E side trem screw is inserted. The bushing moves up out of the body when I pull up on the trem bar. AAAARRRGGGHHH!!! I am ready to turn this thing into firewood.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Steve, I thought your post was a brilliant idea...I never would have thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. Kudos.

I had a 1960 Strat for many years, but the CBS guitars always sounded very different to me, and not in a good way, to my ear. There are reasons why the pre-CBS guitars are more desirable than the later models, and pickups are part of that. The later guitars though, did inspire a bunch of companies like Duncan and Dimarzio to recreate those vintage tones....so I guess it was a good thing, lol!

I now use the G&L Legacys, and the older ones with the SSL-2s and the post-1995 models with the G&L CLF-100 pickups get me the vintage tones I love. (The SSL-2s and the CLF are too close to tell apart.) I also have G&L Comanches with Leo's Z-Coils; S-500's with the MFD pickups; Legacy Specials with the Gotoh Blades; and even a couple of Legacy's with the Texas Hot Antiquitys, with the RW/RP middle and the Custom Hot bridge. They are all great, different flavors, and they all have their uses, but the stock Legacy single coils are about as good as it gets for vintage strat tones, IME.

Mr. B...glad you found a solution.

Bill

 

[SJ318]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Boogie Bill:
Thanks for your support. I read your credentials you posted earlier -elsewhere, and I was very impressed. Good life long work. You are one of the top Forum members around here that I listen too and respect the hell out of.
So it means something to me about what you said. G&L looks better all the time.
I am too chicken to try the magnet push, for fear of busting the wire, so my suggestion was a way I have done it for 40 years. I also have put a strat pickup inside a Trembucker nickel cover. I had to cut the end feet off but the poles fit in the screw holes in the cover PERFECT.HAH. So I rigged up a way to keep it in place (long story) and used in the neck of my SG, no one knows the difference, and wonder how I get such a bright sound in the neck, when I tell 'em they don't believe over the phone, so they have to see it to believe it. It is a thing of beauty and a sound of beauty with the bridge Seth A4 mag together, as long as you make sure they are in phase. Just beautiful.
Thank you Boogie Bill. You know that's B.B.-right? so B.B.(enter your real last name here).

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Quite alright. Everyone has provided valuable info. I pushed the pole pieces for the B and high E string up from the bottom, and it did fix the balance problem. It looks like fender could make a regular set without the useless vintage stagger for those of us who just want to play and sound good, and then they could make a "Master Custom Shop" vintage correct set and charge an extra 100 dollars for them. I'm all about vintage tone, but not vintage design problems.

While I was in there, however, I discovered that my strat's body is cracked right where the bushing for the high E side trem screw is inserted. The bushing moves up out of the body when I pull up on the trem bar. AAAARRRGGGHHH!!! I am ready to turn this thing into firewood.

Just curious what magnets come in the 69's? I don't seem to have problems with string balance on the pups I wound. They have the vintage stagger with ALNICO 5 magnets. Maybe because they are ALNICO 5. I don't know maybe there is and my ears aren't tuned in good enough.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

The 69's have A5. The weaker wind of the CBS era pickup plus the different insulation and perhaps the pattern used does tend to make this era pickup more thin. I find it has less body to the tone. My experience has been with the D.Allen versions (voodoo blues). I guess that they could become weak and thin in the wrong circumstances.

I must have the best situation of almost all of you guys.....being a lefty I'm obliged to turn around the pickups so that the rods are on the other side effectively. I must admit every time I opened threads about string balance issues and stratitis I had to wonder what on earth people were on about - I've never suffered these issues.

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

The 69's have A5. The weaker wind of the CBS era pickup plus the different insulation and perhaps the pattern used does tend to make this era pickup more thin. I find it has less body to the tone. My experience has been with the D.Allen versions (voodoo blues). I guess that they could become weak and thin in the wrong circumstances.

I must have the best situation of almost all of you guys.....being a lefty I'm obliged to turn around the pickups so that the rods are on the other side effectively. I must admit every time I opened threads about string balance issues and stratitis I had to wonder what on earth people were on about - I've never suffered these issues.

Well the pickups I wound are more underwound than the 69's. In the mid 4k range and I haven't had any problems with them sounding thin and I don't seem to have any problems with string balance either. It's an alder bodied maple neck 2006 MIM strat.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Pickups don't comprise only of magnets. And K isn't output.

4k is very low if its 42, but much more if the gauge is in fact more like 40 or 41.

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Pickups don't comprise only of magnets. And K isn't output.

4k is very low if its 42, but much more if the gauge is in fact more like 40 or 41.

I accidentally wound the first one to around 4.8k so I figured I'd make a set in that range. And I have no regrets for doing so. It is 42 gauge SPN wire. I don't remember saying that K is output and that pickups are only magnets and wire... I was saying that I have the same stagger, the same magnets and mine are under wound also and that I don't have the problems described... sure mine were wound by an amateur but by and large they are the same components (besides the plain enamel wire).

 

[AlexR]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

The point is, you have two different pickups......played by people with different ears and rigs. Who knows, what the op is describing might be exactly what happens with yours too if the OP were to play them.

The CS 69's are designed to replicate an certain tone of pickup, which is why they sound the way they do. With the same wire gauge and mag type you can wind a super fat 59 style pickup of the same K rating.....

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

The point is, you have two different pickups......played by people with different ears and rigs. Who knows, what the op is describing might be exactly what happens with yours too if the OP were to play them.

The CS 69's are designed to replicate an certain tone of pickup, which is why they sound the way they do. With the same wire gauge and mag type you can wind a super fat 59 style pickup of the same K rating.....

Hmmm. Interesting. I love learning about this stuff. I wish I had something else to add to the discussion but my experience is pretty limited when it comes to winding.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

Winding is a very complex business. I have had many pickups of close enough K specs and the same mag with vastly differing results tonally. There are a lot of variables as to how the wire is laid on the bobbins, the turns per layer, and degree of scatter, insulating material etc that all contribute to final tone. Its like a secret dark art, winding. But you at least have tried it, which is more in this discussion than I have.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

I've had several sets of Fat 50's that I have pushed the D and G poles down on, but that was to avoid stratitis. I don't remember hearing a volume drop on the B like I do with the 69's. I do have a couple of sets of Flat pole piece single coils, the A3 magnet pickups that came in Highway One strats. I've never had a problem with their string volume balance.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

I know the OP has fixed the issue but I'm going to ask anyway...

Could you post a pic of the pickups in the guard with the strings in view?

I'd love to see the string to string setup and pickup height of possible.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

I have a set of Abby initialed Custom shop '69's. They do a great job at getting the Hendrix Woodstock/Voodoo Child tone. Its all about the underwound Strat pickup tone. I dont think SSL-2/1's excel at that particular dynamic.But all in all, yeah, I think the SSL-2's/1's are a fantastic pickup that is more versatile and sound amazing ( I actually prefer the Antiquites).
Its funny, but I think initially that both Dimarzio and Duncan was shooting for the underwound Woodstock thing with both the original early first issue Duncan Strat stamped back SSL-1 and Dimarzios first early issue VS-1/"Class of 55".

 

[DreX]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

I have a set of Abby initialed Custom shop '69's. They do a great job at getting the Hendrix Woodstock/Voodoo Child tone. Its all about the underwound Strat pickup tone. I dont think SSL-2/1's excel at that particular dynamic.But all in all, yeah, I think the SSL-2's/1's are a fantastic pickup that is more versatile and sound amazing ( I actually prefer the Antiquites).
Its funny, but I think initially that both Dimarzio and Duncan was shooting for the underwound Woodstock thing with both the original early first issue Duncan Strat stamped back SSL-1 and Dimarzios first early issue VS-1/"Class of 55".

You just made me realize that, aside from the Lipstick Tube pickup, Seymour Duncan doesn't have a single coil that reads under 6.3k resistance. Fender and the boutiques like Lollar and Fralin have a good sub 6k variety, so I wasn't missing out, but it's interesting that they seem to eschew lower output winds.

SD's hotter winds tend to sound like lower winds somehow, for example the SSL-1 is 6.5k give or take, and are rather bright pickups, where as the BKP Irish Tours are only 6.3k in the neck, and middle and yet are noticeable thicker and darker.

I requested a 10% underwound Ant II set from the custom shop, and they came in around 5.9k. They're somewhat thinner and brighter sounding than other single coils I've tried in the 5.9k range, I don't know if that's due to how they tension the wire, scatter it, the magnets or what, though.

 

[Alobar]

Re: Compare Fender CS 69's to SSL-2's

....This thread has turned me from a forum lurker, to a contributing registered member. So, I too have a set of CS 69's in my project strat. I thought I was crazy, that there must be something else wrong causing my high E and B to be quiet and unresponsive. Surely the big "F" custom shop knows a thing or two about strat pickups, knows what they are about with that crazy pole stagger?!
Turns out, Im not alone in my frustration! So, after reading this thread and a few others regarding this issue, it opened her up, grabbed the butt end of my trusty phillips, and gently knocked down the D and G poles. I knew the risk, (thanks to y'all), but with fingers crossed I just went for it. Then, for good measure, (thanks SJ318), i flipped around the middle pickup in its slot. Figured might as well even the spread between the neck and middle, whose combination happens to be my absolute favorite.
With bated breath, I reassembled, restringed, plugged her in...... Voila! problem solved. I gotta say, with this mod, the guitar sounds like the elusive Strat tone that has lived in my head, the one at the end of the Pompeii version of Echoes, the one that makes bird sing ..... Even tone across all strings, incredible warmth, crystal clear high strings, no overpowering midrange, and a certain even smoothness in the Neck/bridge position that drove me to register and make this post. It had me fingerpicking acoustic- style country blues on her till way past midnight! So, thanks y'all for putting this info out there it has a positive effect on this guys quest for THAT tone!!!