Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

[IMENATOR]

My first electric was a 21 frets Strat and served me well over the years, the floating bridge was just ok and would do the job but not able to do creazy stuff. Then a few years ago I got me a 22 fret Charvel SoCal and I have been enjoying it to dead, having a good and stable floyd rose bridge is great and the extra fret was a good thing so I could those dramatic bends reaching a high E at the end of a solo. Then I got a used Fender just for resale but while I had it here it the bridge was fixed then I realized I really want a guitar with a fixed bridge, it was good to forget for a while of all the hassle related to restringing and tuning a guitar with floating bridge

So I have been thinking it would be interesting to have a guitar with a fixed bridge to play switch between Std E and Drop D and maybe try 24 frets for the first time, however I use the neck pickup a lot, I mean I really use it a lot both as a rhythm sound but it is the neck ler ad sound that really makes me enjoy playing lead. It is a known fact neck pickup in 24 fret guitars loose a bit of that warm sound but maybe there is ways to compensate for that and here is where I need your ideas and look for options.

* Engaging a graph eq pedal to boost some specific frequecies range when soloing? Would that be low mids?
* Using a pickup with a bit more of a certain frequency that gets reduced when going from 22 frets to 24 frets? Maybe some pickups you know work great for lead on neck position in 24 fret guitars? A Screamin Demon or Sentient maybe?
* Any other suggestion?


By the way, most likely the guitar would be either an Ibanez RG or S, basswood or mahogany body.

Thanks in advance

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

24 frets will change the sound of a neck pickup. If you like how they sound normally, be aware that it will sound quite different. I don't think you can get the same round tone through EQ. It would be like trying to make a bridge HB sound like a neck HB. They just pick up a different vibration of the strings.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

If you figure this out, let me know. I've talked to pickup builders and luthiers who agree that there is no way to make a 24 fret neck pickup to sound like it does on a 21/22 fret guitar. It really is all in the distance from the bridge. I rely on that neck pickup to sound a certain way, and it is something I absolutely won't compromise on, since I use the neck pickup 80% of the time.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

You can get most of the way there by using the bridge model of that pickup if you know what set you're looking at. The Jazz bridge in the neck slot of a 24 feet guitar will work to get you a similar neck tone the the Jazz neck in a 22 fretter. However, the same thing will not work with other pickup models, like the Mayhem Set.

Putting in a double thick magnet in the neck pickup will work for some of the models that won't work with the above method.

Neither of these methods will get you the exact sound of the same pickup in a 22 fret guitar, but they will get you a "better" sound if you find that you don't exactly like what the slight reposition of the neck pickup does to your 24 fret guitar.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

If you figure this out, let me know. I've talked to pickup builders and luthiers who agree that there is no way to make a 24 fret neck pickup to sound like it does on a 21/22 fret guitar. It really is all in the distance from the bridge. I rely on that neck pickup to sound a certain way, and it is something I absolutely won't compromise on, since I use the neck pickup 80% of the time.

I just realized JS kind of figured it out somehow, I mean I am a fan of his music but I just lost track of his signature guitars may years ago and I just stumbled on his 24 fret guitar. It sounds much better than many other demos of 24 fret guitars. I think there is one in a big music store downtown so maybe I should go and try that his guitar.

Edit: Damn, no fixed bridge option on that guitar.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Interesting post. Much like you I primarily use the neck for solos and ran into big problems with my PRS c e 24.

It was a beautiful and extremely well playing guitar and I loved every sound except the neck by itself. I never found a lot humbucker size that could sound 'normal' and finally sold it.

I loved everything else about that guitar, and in retrospect, I wish I had tried mounting a narrower pup like a cool rail or even a firebird in the neck because i could get the center of the pup farther 'north' and closer to the sweetspot.

Wondering if anyone has tried this approach and looking forward to learning how things go for you.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Damn, no fixed bridge option on that guitar.

Cut a bit of wood and jam it between the block/body. Boom, fixed bridge.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Cut a bit of wood and jam it between the block/body. Boom, fixed bridge.

Yep, but part of my interest of the fixed bridge was also trying to get better sustain. One can't have all in life unless you have a signature guitar... or get me a custom made guitar?:scratchch

 

[Francois]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

I was wondering : Why people that complain of the neck tone of a 24 fret guitar not interested in the development of a new design : a 20 fret guitar with a neck pickup set further from the bridge ? Or even 19 frets...

(Well in my first band I played 5 year relying only on the bridge pickup of a 24 guitar...)

That said I agree that the fixed bridge or non floating trem is really preferable if you wanna switch tunings.
I hate switching tuning on my locking trem Charvel.

 

[Discharged]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

It is a known fact neck pickup in 24 fret guitars loose a bit of that warm sound but maybe there is ways to compensate

In a nutshell, no.

P'up physical placement is the determinant factor of the inherent tonefootprint, due to the different string harmonic nodes reading of the polepieces, which are dependent of, you've guessed it, physical placement.

Ergo, no can do in this universe, at least. Maybe some quantum physics expert may argue that something else is possible, but until I see the argument and the base for it, I stick with what it's known in this universe, functioning by the laws of physics.

/Peter

 

[Ascension]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Yep, but part of my interest of the fixed bridge was also trying to get better sustain. One can't have all in life unless you have a signature guitar... or get me a custom made guitar?:scratchch

One of the best sustaining guitars I have ever owned is my Carvin ST 300 with a Floyd and my 2017 Kiesel is not far behind it. Guitars with trems can sustain well if you have the right combo. The ST 300 out sustains any Les Paul I have ever owned it's amazing and just sings forever!!

 

[Ascension]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

In a nutshell, no.

P'up physical placement is the determinant factor of the inherent tonefootprint, due to the different string harmonic nodes reading of the polepieces, which are dependent of, you've guessed it, physical placement.

Ergo, no can do in this universe, at least. Maybe some quantum physics expert may argue that something else is possible, but until I see the argument and the base for it, I stick with what it's known in this universe, functioning by the laws of physics.

/Peter

Some actuality like the tone of the neck pickup on a 24 fret guitar. The old 1996 Wasburn USA Artist AR 30 I had had been custom ordered with the neck pickup in the position it would have been on a 24 fret guitar and sounded AMAZING with a Duncan 59 in that neck. Look close here

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Yep, but part of my interest of the fixed bridge was also trying to get better sustain. One can't have all in life unless you have a signature guitar... or get me a custom made guitar?:scratchch

My ears tell me that there's little difference in sustain between a fixed tail and a properly blocked trem, but YMMV.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

To me, it isn't about sustain. It is about a 'throatiness' (I don't know how else to describe it) that isn't present on 24 fret guitars (and SGs).

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

To me, it isn't about sustain. It is about a 'throatiness' (I don't know how else to describe it) that isn't present on 24 fret guitars (and SGs).

Exactly, there is some kind of dept in the sound that really shines when your sound is at the edge of breaking up, also the "dirty" cleans are fantastic. And of course the tubular sound you get with a lead sound is something to die for, mostly single coils for me but some humbuckers can really sing too. Many Slash and Dave Murray solos or that Highway Star solo in Made in Japan or any YJM where my inspiration to realize I am really into the neck pickup sound.

 

[ICTGoober]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

We can't fight physics, fellers... On a 22 fretter, the neck pickup is right under the harmonics that are at the 24th fret for open strings. I can't remember who did it, but some maker cut the pickup ring years ago to get the neck pickup right up against the fingerboard. I also had a 19 fret Harmony Rocket decades ago, and the position gave that neck pickup a really full tone. Played clean it sounded incredible, with dirt - an indistinguishable sludge. The Mastodon guys would have loved it.

 

[Juanhanglo]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

I kinda like a 24fret guitar with a neck humbucker.

I find it cuts the boominess one gets on a 22 fret location.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Most of my guitars are 24 fret. I like playing on the neck pickup, both clean and dirty, and I find no problem with the sound that I get. But then, I tend to run my neck pickups either split to the screw coil or in parallel. Except in my Jackson with the Floyd. In that I have an inexpensive Asian no name pickup in the neck position, 8.5k that I swapped an A5 into, and it gives glorious cleans.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

We can't fight physics, fellers...

You can fight it, I know it won't sound exactly the same but thinking out of the box may help to compensate a bit?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Compensating tone change from 22 to 24 fret neck lead tone?

Exactly, there is some kind of dept in the sound that really shines when your sound is at the edge of breaking up, also the "dirty" cleans are fantastic. And of course the tubular sound you get with a lead sound is something to die for, mostly single coils for me but some humbuckers can really sing too. Many Slash and Dave Murray solos or that Highway Star solo in Made in Japan or any YJM where my inspiration to realize I am really into the neck pickup sound.

That is exactly the tone, and probably the examples I would have given, too. I think some people are aware of that sound, and some aren't. It sticks out like crazy to me, but I use the neck pickup almost all the time, so I think I am particularly sensitive.