Complete 180...

[JB_From_Hell]

Ok, now I'm all thrown for a loop... I was listening to the dirty soundbytes of various Duncan bridge 'buckers. Typically, I check out the high output stuff. Just for sh*ts & giggles, I checked out the '59 & Seth Lover.

HOLY SH*T!!! Are my ears playing tricks on me, or do those low output pups have totally bitchin' crunch sounds?!?!?

I was all geared up to buy a Custom trembucker, but now I'm wondering if I should go in the other direction. The new pup is going into a basswood, maple/rosewood bolt on, floyd rose, 2 hum axe (either Ibanez or ESP). I know they don't make a Seth Lover trembucker, but I'm really tempted by the '59.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Complete 180...

In Tips and Clips a few months ago someone did a shootout of a bunch of low output pickups doing Van Halen type stuff in custom superstrat EVH Charvel-looking guitars. I can't find it, but the clips sounded great. I can't remember if the guitars had Floyds though. Some people think that you need a bit more pickup to compensate for a Floyd.

Maybe someone will know what happened to those clips - it was a 59 vs a Custom Shop EVH pickup vs a Voodoo PAF vs a Tom Holmes doing 80s metal stuff.

 

[scooter]

Re: Complete 180...

They definitely have great crunch tones. It's a myth, in my opinion, that a high output pickup is necessary for fat crunchy tones. I have a demon in my strat, which I wouldn't call high output, and it's great. Thick, punchy and remains clear with high gain. I've played guitars with both seths and 59's and loved the tones from them. I especially like that 59 for many styles of music. I remember a while back, Jolly posted a bunch of clips of the same tune, if I remember correctly, with a varitey of pickups. Heck, he has ~200 Les Pauls and about every duncan humbucker that you can find. I recall the 59, Jazz and PG all sounding great in those clips.

 

[Blueline]

Re: Complete 180...

i think it was explained once like this

or at least htis is my take
low output pickups make you have to crank your amp a bit more to get the crunch sound, which ulitmately sounds great - nice fat crunchy tube sound

higher output pickups give their own kick - they're supplying the crunch - kinda like a pedal would

and personally, i like tube distortion/crunch better than pedals

maybe this is just my nonsense - it is late...

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Complete 180...

I prefer lower output pickups like the Seth Lover, 59B and Antiquity because the tone has more breath and space to it. Overwound pickups tend to sound thicker, smoother and more compressed and the tone gets all filled up...less room to crunch in a way.

Higher output pickups (10K to 16.5K) overdrive the preamp of the amp a little more easily at lower volumes...but if I can just crank up my amps to 6 or 7, I prefer the tone of lower output vintage style humbuckers (10K or less).

If Eddie Van Halen is the master of rock tone that alot of guys think he is, those same guys need to know that the humbucker he used for those early recordings was basically a vintage output paf style humbucker. 9K or so. Not a super hot pickup like the JB, Custom, Custom 5 or Custom Custom at all...

I like those pickups...don't get me wrong. I play a Custom Custom myself. But it's kind of thick and compressed sounding too, and has less breath and complexity than a Seth or Antiquity IMO.

Lew

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Complete 180...

I have a 59b in my Wolfgang, albeit with an A2 magnet...love everything about it.
Crunchy and clear...no annoying compression or mud.
I do use a CC in my Kramer...that is the hottest I ever will go.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Complete 180...

I have a 59b in my Wolfgang, albeit with an A2 magnet...love everything about it.
Crunchy and clear...no annoying compression or mud.
I do use a CC in my Kramer...that is the hottest I ever will go.

Me too. 100% agreement...

Lew

 

[Wattage]

Re: Complete 180...

I have to agree with Lew 100%, excellent breakdown.

 

[SABOTAGE]

Re: Complete 180...

Ok, now I'm all thrown for a loop... I was listening to the dirty soundbytes of various Duncan bridge 'buckers. Typically, I check out the high output stuff. Just for sh*ts & giggles, I checked out the '59 & Seth Lover.

HOLY SH*T!!! Are my ears playing tricks on me, or do those low output pups have totally bitchin' crunch sounds?!?!?

I was all geared up to buy a Custom trembucker, but now I'm wondering if I should go in the other direction. The new pup is going into a basswood, maple/rosewood bolt on, floyd rose, 2 hum axe (either Ibanez or ESP). I know they don't make a Seth Lover trembucker, but I'm really tempted by the '59.

you know i feel the same way about those clips, i went over there to listen to the metal live wires and invader and figured why not listen to ALL the clips :laugh2:
well i also feel the seth,59,pg,and the demon all had a better crunch than the
higher output ones did :smack:
and what i really appreciated is that ALL those clips where done with the same guitar/amp/settings/tuning/ riff/player
so the ONLY variable was the pups

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Complete 180...

I have a 59b in my Wolfgang, albeit with an A2 magnet...love everything about it.
Crunchy and clear...no annoying compression or mud.
I do use a CC in my Kramer...that is the hottest I ever will go.

I'm in the same situation. I have a Pearly Gates set in my LP and a APH/CC set in my Carvin. I get some of my heaviest, thickest tones from the PEarly Gates.

 

[SABOTAGE]

Re: Complete 180...

I'm in the same situation. I have a Pearly Gates set in my LP and a APH/CC set in my Carvin. I get some of my heaviest, thickest tones from the PEarly Gates.

hey doesn't that dude in GODSMACK use a PG in his LP's?

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Complete 180...

hey doesn't that dude in GODSMACK use a PG in his LP's?

I think so. Another PG user is the rythm guitarist for Powerman 5000. He uses his in a strat to crushing effect. :saeek:

 

[Thames]

Re: Complete 180...

I started with med/low (vintage) output pickups like the '59... then later I have used some higher output pickups, and came back to my good ol' Seths. I sold the first pair I had a while ago, but believe me, I'll never sell this one!

However, I really like the Rio Grande BBQ, lots of crunch in there for a high-output HB.

 

[Sly_D]

Re: Complete 180...

I'm using a 59b right now, and I can tell you... I was sold to DMZ Super Distortion ( ) and SD Custom but I found what I was looking for in the 59b. It has less output but great crunch... a little less mids though, yet far from flat as the C5 (sorry fans of the C5). It has awesome clarity. I'm tempted to try a PGb sometimes.

But go fot it. You'll be surprised at the sound of lower output pups.

Rid: I'll try that 59 A2 set up when I receive the CC I bought from Black Rose Custom. Sounds cool.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Complete 180...

Yes open, crunchy and airy sounds good but I wonder if lower output buckers still have the tightness you need for high gain style music? Probably not.

I would say: The hotter a pickup is, the more compressed thus tighter in the bottom end.
So I think I'll stick with medium/high output buckers.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Complete 180...

you know i feel the same way about those clips, i went over there to listen to the metal live wires and invader and figured why not listen to ALL the clips :laugh2:
well i also feel the seth,59,pg,and the demon all had a better crunch than the
higher output ones did :smack:
and what i really appreciated is that ALL those clips where done with the same guitar/amp/settings/tuning/ riff/player
so the ONLY variable was the pups

I think those kinds of tests where a bunch of differant pickups are compared using the same amp setting are misleading. You HAVE to change the volume and tone settings to get a good sound out of each individual pickup! So all a test like that is going to do is point out the differences between pickups...not show you how the pickup will actually sound with a great tone dialed in on your amp. Lew

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Complete 180...

To my knowledge overwound high-output pickups started with the DiMarzio Super Distortion in the early 70s. In those days there weren't any high gain amps or even amps with pre-amp gain controls. To get distortion you either turned the amp up so the power tubes distorted or you used a fuzz box, or both. Overwound high output pickups allowed you to get your amp to break up into distortion at lower volumes or get more distortion when you cranked it.

These days we have multiple channel amps with plenty of high gain options and we also have a wider range of overdrive and distortion effects to choose from.

I've tried medium-high output pickups on a few occasions (DiMarzio Super Distortion, Duncan Custom & C5) and they have some great distortion tones, but I always settle back to vintage output 'buckers. With the amps and effects available today I can get more than enough gain and distortion from a vintage output pickup and that way I also get great sophisticated clean and in between tones. I find the higher output pickups great fun to play on for a short while but they don't have the versatility of the vintage style models.

A '59 is a great bridge pickup for pretty much any style of music if you're prepared to get your high gain from your amp or effects.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Complete 180...

I think those kinds of tests where a bunch of differant pickups are compared using the same amp setting are misleading. You HAVE to change the volume and tone settings to get a good sound out of each individual pickup! So all a test like that is going to do is point out the differences between pickups...not show you how the pickup will actually sound with a great tone dialed in on your amp. Lew

That's a really good point! I know I can get a great tone from a Seth or from a '59, but probably not from both with the same amp settings!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Complete 180...

I think those kinds of tests where a bunch of differant pickups are compared using the same amp setting are misleading. You HAVE to change the volume and tone settings to get a good sound out of each individual pickup! So all a test like that is going to do is point out the differences between pickups...not show you how the pickup will actually sound with a great tone dialed in on your amp. Lew

That's a really good point! I know I can get a great tone from a Seth or from a '59, but probably not from both with the same amp settings!

Exactly. It's a pet peeve of mine. Lew

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Complete 180...

Yes open, crunchy and airy sounds good but I wonder if lower output buckers still have the tightness you need for high gain style music? Probably not.

I would say: The hotter a pickup is, the more compressed thus tighter in the bottom end.
So I think I'll stick with medium/high output buckers.

So, following your theory, an Invader will have a much tighter bottom than say, a Broadcaster lead? :smack: