Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

[80's_Metal]

So here's the background of my story:
I teach an intro to guitar class at our high school (I'm a PE teacher by license and endorsements)
There is a full time music certified teacher that teaches computer recording and music theory, I'm the 101 and he's the 102.

He just resigned.... So I will probably need to get a recording/performing arts certification, because by law I can't teach the class without being "highly qualified"
... maybe easy enough to do because I have spent a few hours recording old school on a fostex and Tascam 4 and 8 track... have logged a million hours just recording my own stuff over the many years. I think I can handle the "recording engineer mixing part" pretty well.

All of the current computers, sound equipment, recording software and hardware all belong to the teacher who is leaving, He owns and operates his own recording label/studio, so it was all his stuff, I will have to start from scratch with nothing but a few guitars.

I guess I could use my own microphones, PA, amps, and my old 4-tracks to teach the students the old way of recording, but I think that will do them a dis-service since most of the world has gone completely digital/computer. Plus it may be fun to learn for myself. (although secretly I love tape....but that's another topic altogether)


NOW onto the questions:
I've never really sat down and really used pro -tools and or any computer recording interfaces, aside from dinking around with audacity and other free programs just for fun...

I am pretty good with computers, and I know I'll pick that part right up, no worry there, BUT what I really need to know is this:


What parts/hardware will I need to get a "recording" burned to CD, start to finish, and from song ideas from the students to a finished product?


from my somewhat limited knowledge here I will assume I will need:

1. A brand new computer. (I'll assume the bigger and faster the better, school funds are hard to come by)
2. some sort of recording software, IE protools. (are there others?)
3. Some sort of interface into the computer??? (here is where I am ignorant)
4. Some sort of a multiprocessor.... elevenrack, hd POD, axe-fx guitar/bass processor (needed or not????)
5. Either some electronic drum software, or some real drums and mics for them. (our school doesn't have any drums, nor do we have any drummers)
6. I already own 4 or 5 SM57's and SM58's plus other mics, so I think I'm covered there for vocals and acoustic guitars and even big ass half stack live sounds if that's where we need to go.


I will have to get all this together for my principal to order before I could effectively teach this class.... just want to get a jump on this project, I fear if I don't then there will be ZERO guitar/music on our campus next year at all..... that's no bueno for my kids who have worked so hard.

Am I missing anything glaring???

Options I could/should consider?

Are there complete turn key kind of systems for purchase? I'm beginning my search on sweetwater / mf / samash as I type this....

Wherever I could cut pricing down would really help out, but I don't want to buy anything that will suck or stop working in a year.

Thanks for any help guys, really appreciate it.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

Hoooboy...

Okay, in order:

1. Yes.
2. There are a lot of options, but running with ProTools won't be doing your students any dis-service - so long as you remind them that there is other software, and other ways of doing things. One package you may do well to look at, would be the full production version of Sony's Vegas. It is full fledged video and audio production software, and is very good at both (a rarity in that).
3. Well, this is where #1 comes back into play: do you plan on going Mac or PC? There really isn't a performance benefit from Macs anymore, since they run on the same Intel chips. They're maybe a hair more stable, but that is very much software dependent. However, if you run a Mac, your best choice is Logic for audio, and Apogee for interface. On the PC side... I would highly suggest looking at the PreSonus StudioLive stuff - all the features of a fullsized deck, so you'd have all the bells and knobs you're used to turning, and decent preamps, but not incredibly expensive.
4. Not a bad idea, but not 100% necessary. I would definitely aim for something that will model bass amps as well as guitar.
5. Again, not a bad idea, but some drum sample CDs might serve you just as well.
6. A good start, yeah, but you'll want to pad them out with some condensors... the AudioTechnica 2020 is inexpensive, but very flexible. Rode, Blue, and StudioProjects also make some good mics that won't make your piggybank squeal.

Good luck!

 

[ginormous]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

I'm a Reaper fanboy. Mac and PC compatible, regular updates (every 2 to 3 months), records .wav files (the same audio file format as PT), accepts VST plugins (a method of getting audio processing, effects and instrument/synth sounds) and it's waaaay less expensive. Home use license is $60 US for regular people. There are institutional license discounts that make this a viable candidate for schools.

If you use Reaper and Audacity together, you can edit and save mixdowns to mp3 among other file formats, and burn a CD from iTunes, Windows Media Player, RealPlayer or any other conventional program.

If you're recording audio, shop for a mixer with good mic preamps, and consider a multichannel analog/digital converter from MOTU, Tascam, or another well-regarded brand.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

A Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is cheap, sounds excellent, and comes with Ableton Live. That's all you'll need to start.

You definitely do not need a brand new computer for basic recording.

On the whole, you're a lot better off starting simple and learning how to master the few tools you have, rather than equipping yourself with a whole home studio and going nuts figuring it all out. Start with the audio interface and the included software, and build up as your needs demand it.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

If you can get your school to fund it or find grant money to do it I think you'd be well served by a newer, mid-level iMac and Logic 9 or Logic X. It's stupidly intuitive for the most part and it's downfalls aren't things you'll run across with the kids. It comes with all the software instruments, amps, and samplers you'd ever need in that setting and the stock plugins are quite good. Yes, they'd be learning Apple-only stuff and they won't be learning ProTools, which is generally considered the industry standard. On the other hand, I barely know how to use PT and up until this past month literally all my income came from production work.

The Focusrite Scarlett interfaces are great; no need to look elsewhere.

I'd advise getting 1 large diaphragm condenser and a pair of small diaphragm condensers in addition to your 57s/58s to give the kids some exposure to a larger variety of microphones. Can you record anything with a pair of 57s or 58s? Pretty much. Will they be the best mics for the task? Probably not. Snare and guitar cabinets are really the only places where I legitimately like a 57 and wouldn't prefer something else virtually every time.

The interface, condenser mics, a cheap e-kit or cheap drum mic set (or hell, teach them the recorderman or Glyn Johns setup with what you've already got), and a MIDI keyboard and you'd be set.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

My replies.

1. Not necessarily. A Windohs XP machine with a CD writing optical drive and 2GB of RAM would suffice.
2. This is where things can get expensive. Over the past five or six years, I have invested in several iterations of Apple Logic. It is vastly capable. It can adapt to numerous different ways of working. Even now, I would not claim to have anything approaching a full understanding of this DAW. Recording software per se is only the beginning. Some have instrument sounds built in. Some, you have to buy third party software instruments and/or amplifier modelling software.
3. Yes. What you plan to record determines how many input sockets would be desirable. In most DAW software, mixing is performed (and settings memorised) in the computer.
4. IMO, no. (See item #2.)
5. I agree with those who have suggested that looped/sampled/programmed drums would satisfy all but the genuine stick wielders.
6. The more microphones, the merrier.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

I've been thinking about a similar setup for me & my kids here at home, and I spending a lot of time here: http://homerecording.com/bbs/forum.php. It's very educational, and the members run the gamut from beginners with no gear (and no clue) to smaller pro studios.

I'm all but convinced we're going with Reaper, it's cheap to start with and there may be a price break for educators. I'll go along with the Focusrite Scarlett, that's what I'd buy if I needed an interface right now. (For the time being, I'm sticking with a Zoom HD8 all-in-one that friend gave me as my front end, then porting to the computer for MIDI tracks and mixing.)

I'm finding that the nickel-and-dime items are adding up fast. I have a computer, but it needs more memory ($50), a larger main hard drive ($70), a USB3 port and external "data" drive ($120). Don't underestimate the little stuff.

Also, don't forget the room, it really comes into play when you buy for first LDC mic. If your room is bad and/or untreated, a normal dynamic cardioid will likely work better than a fancy, sensitive LDC.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

Jerry could help you set everything up, except by court order he's not allowed within 100 yards of a high school, junior high, or elementary school.

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

Thanks for all your input guys!

I think I would really like to stay away from Macs if at all possible, its just a personal hatred.


I found this and thought what a great price... am I missing something here?
Its both Eleven Rack AND protools.....
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ElevenRack


I may be able to squeeze this, a new PC, and maybe a mic or 2 out of the schools budget.....

Oh and I forgot to mention that we have a big mixer board,(not ancient, but not digital) and some pretty nice studio speaker as well as large PA speakers... those will stay.

 

[FretFire]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

A Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is cheap, sounds excellent, and comes with Ableton Live. That's all you'll need to start.

Just stopped in to say "+1" to this. All of the guitar parts for an EP I'm working on were recorded through a Scarlett 2i2, either direct or via a mic'd cab, and it sounds great.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

Isn't the school dictating which software you must use?

For that matter, don't they own a computer and software for it?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

Thinking about this question again, nowadays, it ought to be possible to make perfectly adequate recordings on a tablet computing device. Recording apps exist for several platforms. You will need some form of adapter to connect between the tablet device and the USB world. You will also require an external CD/DVD writer drive.

In this scenario, the large analogue mixing console would be very useful.

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

Isn't the school dictating which software you must use?

For that matter, don't they own a computer and software for it?

No, we are a small district, the entire music dept will now consist of myself and a choir teacher.... its my opinion that the admin doesn't know anything about what software to use or anything about it, they just want to have the class stay open, however I want to do it.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

No, we are a small district, the entire music dept will now consist of myself and a choir teacher.... its my opinion that the admin doesn't know anything about what software to use or anything about it, they just want to have the class stay open, however I want to do it.

Nice.

Would it be an option to use some form of free software so that he students can have it without expenses? ProTools is pricey.

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

yes I imagine I might have to explore many different scenarios.....

Educational funding in my state is actually among the worst.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

I'm *very* willing to bet that there's no "guitar course" or "music recording course" in my local high schools.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Computer recording guru's LOTS of help needed (DO IT FOR THE KIDS)

1. A brand new computer. (I'll assume the bigger and faster the better, school funds are hard to come by)

Not necessarily true. One of my all-time fav produciton machines is still a single core under-2GHz ABIT based one because of its stability. It can handle album mixings (40-50 tracks and above) with a couple of outboard units (that you won't need for teaching). Even a slower machine can work without any problem as long you keep your system optimised (true for fast machines too). A lot of good points of how to start it: http://global.focusrite.com/answerbase/search/optimising If you have no net connection + no network + gfx is barebone (the least possible apps sucking juice out of the processor) = the more stabile recording machine. Of course some lightning fast machine with SSD OS drive and an another internal drive for music data (or archiving) never hurts.

As for CD burning try to think of it as some soon-to-be-outdated data carrier. Your students can benefit much more if they learn about self and band management, organising and booking, online promotion, image, video directing, merchandise.


2. some sort of recording software, IE protools. (are there others?)

As you say MAC is out of the game (and so are Logic that is great and Digital Performer that is also good), there are zounds of others and as someone who has some past in 'tools hell I must admit that depending on the application you can find many better solutions that can solve it better, more stable and straightforward:

- Reaper is much much more stabe and faster for recording and editing, it has zounds of useful mixing effects but it doesn't have included instruments. Because of its flexibility, workflow and customisable options that's my DAW of choice whenever possible as it seems to be the most efficient and stable of all I've tried. I load my DAWs very heavily and it seems to be the only one that can handle whole album mixing assignments with all the automation and zounds of realtime effects without hiccups in one session (8-15 songs).

- Cubase and Sonar come with a lot of bundled FX mixing and virtual instruments, they are more like tweaking musician's / composer's DAW so they amazing for composing but maybe too complicated and time consuming for a first-timer. They become a weapon in skilled hands.

- Ableton can do a lot of things on the fly that others can not, its workflow is best suited for electronic music / live performance. It can do what others and it's really stable but it is the strongest in loop / groove processing.

- even the barebone Audacity has its use as you can teach the basics of recording - and hey it's free

- ...anyway if you want to teach your kids real liff and of how to work in bigger studios it is still wise to teach them ProTools to some level as most big studios use that, perhaps because of the amazing PT-HD interfaces. The software is some 'I can do it, but...' '...okay but you must consider that I won't...' '...it was alright yesterday but from now you can't do this and that..." kind of thing that keeps driving me nuts since PT9 whenever I have to work with that. PT generated more and more terrible bugs than all of the ones I worked with altogether. But that's what big studios have and the more your students can live in production hell the better.


3. Some sort of interface into the computer??? (here is where I am ignorant)

+1 for Focusrite Scarlett. It is the best value for the money now'days. It has really nice preamps for the price too.


4. Some sort of a multiprocessor.... elevenrack, hd POD, axe-fx guitar/bass processor (needed or not????)

They are not necessary unless you want to teach how to tweak those stuff. If you just want to teach the basics of recording, functionally for a school demo mix a $100 Roland Cube line out directly into the sound interface works just as fine for giving some useful insight about the process as a $3000 Kemper Profiler. The main difference is time: the Cube is instant, the Kemper has an ample of pro options that aren't necessary for creating simple examples. Later on something like that may come handy but for a start - it's just too much. A couple of real FX pedals, real noise and analogue mistakes demonstrate the whole thing better I think.


5. Either some electronic drum software, or some real drums and mics for them. (our school doesn't have any drums, nor do we have any drummers)

For a guitarist, learning a simple drum sequencer like Easy Drummer is much more useful than setting up an analogue or electric drumkit that no one can use properly. A $40 Korg Nanopad would be much more than enough to teach them grooves and the importance of rhythm patterns. A little MIDI keyboard can also come handy but again don't fall into fall out of the budget. I make 90% of my orchestration / composing assignments with a 2-octave M-Audio Ozone keyboard. I guess it was around $100 new.


6. I already own 4 or 5 SM57's and SM58's plus other mics, so I think I'm covered there for vocals and acoustic guitars and even big ass half stack live sounds if that's where we need to go.

With a couple of SM57 mics, two small diaphragm condensers and a large condenser you can teach the students mic positioning, basics of ambient mic techniques and choosing the right mic for the right application (and using their ears dammit ) and always keep on experimenting and learning how to decide well. It doesn't matter if they later use a monster studio or their home computer with one mic, the way of thinking is exactly the same. Rode, Audio-Technica, AKG and Shure are very powerful even in the budget price range.