Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups work

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DreX

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I'm starting a new thread in response to https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...-singlecoils&p=3853195&viewfull=1#post3853195 to avoid concerns about going off topic.

Let me preface by saying that I'm only interested in getting at what you know and can share. Things might end up getting dramatic, but creating drama is never my intention.

I get the feeling that if I told you the whole story, you wouldn't believe or accept it and all you would do is argue with me.

If you state the facts, they will stand on their own. Nothing I could say would make those facts less factual.

I'm not claiming I know everything about every aspect of how pickups work, but I know a lot, I know a few things that I don't think anyone else has figured out and certainly

I'm glad to hear you say there are things about pickups that haven't been figured out, because a lot of people here wouldn't even admit that much.

I know more than enough to make excellent pickups consistently.

You make money from the sales of pickups, so I have to weight everything you put forth knowing you have a financial incentive to possibly say whatever can be said to increase the chances of a sale. What does it means to make an "excellent" pickup? Isn't it mostly subjective anyway? How can you characterize subjective qualities as being "excellent"?

Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that posting this kind of information on forums is not a good use of time or resources. Too many people who think they know how it works based on the phenomenological crap that abounds on the internet, not willing to step out of their box to take a fresh look at things.

Again, if you post factual finding, they will hold up over time, they will speak for themselves, you will be credited for bringing light to a dark corner of the internet.

I will be posting more information on my blog, but I will be doing it on my schedule and on my terms. It's hard won information that's been gleaned through years of experimentation and analysis. It's also a fairly long, complicated and multi-faceted story so trying to get it across in a forum post is not really possible. Especially given the fact that I know this stuff is true, and I use it every day to design and control pickups, why am I compelled to spill my guts on a forum to a bunch of guys who probably don't know how to use a multi-meter and are just going to shoot it down based their incomplete, hearsay-based ideas of how pickups work?

That's both condescending and an huge evasion, we don't need this.

I'll give you a couple of clues for now, though. In another post that I'm not quoting here you asked/stated that my pickups are not much different from rail pickups. Well the response is that they are. In a number of ways, but the biggest is in the way I dial in the frequency response.

What does it mean to "dial in" frequency response? In more technical terms, what does that entail?

I do things with pole piece materials and configurations that no one else is doing. In fact, the pole piece and its role in shaping the tone is the single most important and overlooked aspect of pickup design. As an example, I don't use any AlNiCo in any of my commercial pickups. But, I've been able to develop a model for how the tone is derived and a corresponding library of materials that allows me to dial in a response that sounds like AlNiCo 5 or A2 or A3 or anything else for that matter. I've been able to establish what it is about these alloys that makes them sound like they do, and also how to get other materials to respond like them.

What does AlNiCo II, III and V sound like? It's interesting that you're emulating how they sound when people can't even seem to come to an agreement on exactly how they differ. Some say that A II makes for a "spongy" feel, has a "soft" bottom and top end, how do you sort out all that subjectivity to determine objectively what a particular grade of AlNiCo actually sounds like?

That's the real secret. The multiple coil design is just an efficient way to get hum cancelling with minimal loss. The really cool and important part is being able to take that efficient platform and dial it in where you want it. Predictably and repeatably.

Again, what is this process of "dialing in", and minimal loss of what?

I would also point out that while it's true that frequency response won't tell you everything about how a pickup will perform, it tells you most of it. Certainly the most important part of the physics of pickup response can be understood by considering the shape and position of the frequency response along with the inductance. .

I could agree that frequency response accounts for 90% of a pickup, but there's that remaining 10%, and the frequency response of the coil doesn't account for the particulars of the magnetic circuit, where the magnets are places and how far they are from the string relative to the coil, this size and shape of any pole pieces involved. Touching back to the topic of this thread, people always ask for a noiseless single coil that sounds like a true single coil, how can you be sure that what people are looking for resides in that 90% frequency response domain you have a firm grip on, and not in that 10% mystery area that perhaps you don't?

I know this is true because I use it every day.
I don't get value from arguing about it.

This is not an argument, this is a detailed request for clarification and assurance of someone in the industry who has made particular claims about the pickups they sell, and pickups in general.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

:smack:
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

Let me preface by saying that I'm only interested in getting at what you know and can share. Things might end up getting dramatic, but creating drama is never my intention.

tumblr_ll5iu47xoQ1qc08ab.gif
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

At what point does a phone call or private message become the best option?
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

Seriously, do this in a private message DreX.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

I didn't say I didn't understand the "other 10%", I just said it isn't necessarily something you can get from the frequency response alone.

I think I made it clear that I have no intention of getting in to a back and forth in this format.

I will be addressing many of your questions in my blog posts. These posts will be well constructed, data based and supported, even referenced where appropriate. Basically something on the order of white papers.

I'm really not trying to be condescending, I just don't feel the need to explain myself in the kind of detail you're looking for in a forum. It's not an efficient or value added way for me to get the information across.

You're just going to have to wait.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

I'm not asking you to explain yourself, I'm asking you to explain pickups. I'd still like to know how you "tune" a coil, how you determine what the characteristics of AlNiCo magnets are such that you're able replicate their qualities without using actual AlNiCo, how you can get thin diagonal blades to magnetically perform like round pole pieces, if that even matters, why or why does it not?

I don't care what format you provide this information in, so long as you provide it. You claim to have this knowledge, so you've created an expectation that has yet to be met. Telling your potential customers that information will be forthcoming will only convince the 'already convinced'. You sell pickups for a living, so I have every reason in the world to be skeptical. The more you explain how you don't have time to explain something, the less likely it seems that time is really an issue.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

With all do respect, please keep this between yourselves. I really don't think Seymour Duncan Co. wants this site to be a place of bashing/scrutinizing another pickup company. It really sounds like DreX and Zexcoil should handle this in a private message.

Please see the Rules Of Conduct...this does not reflect well on Seymour Duncan nor does it show respect to a fellow forum bro.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

You can insinuate that I'm lying all that you want.

I've made my position clear. Your stance only reinforces why a forum is exactly the wrong place for me to publish any kind of data-based description and analysis of how I think about pickup design and function.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

You could say that works both ways.

Being you created this thread to call him out..I would say this is you asking for it. Ask away in PM...but in the open like this is just bad form. Everyone here including you knows how it will go.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

DreX... you just insulted an actual Ph.D from MIT, somebody that has earned none less than three patents from his work with the zexcoil concept.

Way to go, pal! ;)
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

DreX... you just insulted an actual Ph.D from MIT, somebody that has earned none less than three patents from his work with the zexcoil concept.

Way to go, pal! ;)

For so long Drex was the self-appointed intellectual superior around here. Zex comes along and actually knows what he's talking about, posts evidence and proof to back himself up and boom! Just like that, DreX feels inferior and this is his behavior. It really only hurts DreX's reputation. I think we all saw this coming eventually.
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

You can insinuate that I'm lying all that you want.

I'm not insinuating that you're lying. I'm stating plainly that what you claim to know, and what you're willing to share, are two different things, and that this is valid cause for me, as a buyer of pickups, to be skeptical. I'm theoretically your ideal customer. I like battery-free noiseless single coils sized pickups. I own Lace Sensors, Bardens, Duckbuckers and Vintage Rails and have decided that stacked humbuckers are not to my liking, which leaves Zex Coils. If you were to admit that you didn't understand everything there is to understand about pickups, and that you relied on trial and error to arrive at a product that you felt was solid and pleasing to the ear, I wouldn't think any less of you or your product. That's really what I like about Vintage Rails; they sound nice. I don't really care whether they sound like true single coils or not.

I've made my position clear. Your stance only reinforces why a forum is exactly the wrong place for me to publish any kind of data-based description and analysis of how I think about pickup design and function.

You'd rather publish your information somewhere where you can delete comments you don't like or ban commentators?
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

You'd rather publish your information somewhere where you can delete comments you don't like or ban commentators?

In all fairness you are just trolling him here so... why not publish his excellent work where he can filter out the trolls?
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

You can insinuate that I'm lying all that you want.

I've made my position clear. Your stance only reinforces why a forum is exactly the wrong place for me to publish any kind of data-based description and analysis of how I think about pickup design and function.

if youd put a link to your blog, i think some of us would enjoy reading it
 
Re: Conversation with Zexcoil regarding what is currently known about how pickups wor

DreX... you just insulted an actual Ph.D from MIT, somebody that has earned none less than three patents from his work with the zexcoil concept.

Way to go, pal! ;)

Nobody is beyond reproach, not even those with lofty credentials. Earning a patent isn't especially difficult to do.
 
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