Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

[Funkfingers]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Yeah. Les Paul stories are much like fishing stories. Somebody always caught a better/bigger/meaner one than you did.

I just noticed two glaring omissions in the OP. Junior and Special. Two slabs of Mahogany and P90 goodness. Too good to miss.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

I would argue that there is a difference between making a "sarcastic joke" and making a valid point in a humorous way.

But by all means, don't let me get in the way of your hissy fit.

 

[Kam]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

 

[Aceman]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Empty pockets did a fantastic job!

Some intarweb mythology to ignore, points to consider:

#1 Short tenon necks. Find me someone who can Hear or Feel the difference between a short and long tenon neck, and I'll shake his hand and say "Nice to meet you Eric Johnson." I have NEVER seen an LP broken at the heel, and never known anyone who could tell.

#2 Norlin. Made differently, yes. Bad? Not so fast. Example one (a personal Favorite); How much of the tone is in the neck? Not sure. But I think it's a lot. A three piece MAPLE neck is bright and super effing strong. Pancake body (for the record, I have a Norlin with and without); You wouldn't blink an eye at a glued together BC Rich for 10 grand. What's wrong with an LP with glue? The top is glued on...no one ever mentions that? Just some things to consider.

#3 490/498 I have never heard any kind of music that I COULDN'T play with one of those. Yes there are pickups I would PREFER. But that's just my preference. Gibson, contrary to popular belief, can make pickups. Gibson does make some good pickups these days though BB's (except the Pro to my ears), 57's, and my personal faves: 500T and Dirty Fingers!!!

#4 Volute - reality = fail. A volute (little wood bumpy near the headstock) actually causes the neck to break on the headstock itself. Much harder to repair. Personally, I don't drop LP's often, but the times I have, they have proved indestructible.

#5 The weight. Hey - it's a big chunk of heavy wood. Grow a pair, or go play something made out of Agathis. Honestly 8lbs or 10lbs....after an hour does it matter? Or if you are sitting down does it matter at all?

#6 Chambers/Weight Relief - These things were done LONG before Gibson told anyone (much like the neck tenon). No one said a word, or even noticed. More likely they said "Hey - light, resonates, open sounding" and liked it. Don't worry about if it is hollow, creme filled or whatever. Just play it.

#7 Good years/Bad years - I have played Les Pauls from pretty much every year since 1979. I have also played 68's and a 73 and 74. There is no such thing as a good year or a bad year. Yes - construction does vary. However, with a Mashall, and a Duncan Distortion (or SuperDistortion) any of them would have rocked your face right off.

At the end of the day, here is the MOST important thing to remember:

A Les Paul is a COMPLEX tonal brew. Two different pieces of mahogany. A piece of maple, maybe two. A piece of rosewood or ebony. Then it gets glued. That's five different pieces of wood plus adhesive. Any piece of wood can vary IMMENSELY - much more so than a strat considering the wood types. You HAVE TO PLAY THEM. If you hit an LP with all of those on the dark side it can be Dark like the Sith. If you hit them all brite and lite - It can be tough to tame. Two made right after each other can sound night and day. Listen to it ACOUSTICALLY. Anything missing can't be added, and anything too much will need tamed. Pups can be changed. The wood can't. Some of them have the mojo, some don't, but almost all of them are unbelievably solid well constructed guitars of a general sonic nature.

I think Mr. Frehley said it very well:

There is nothing like a Les Paul through a Marshall for that hard rock sound.

 

[formula73]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Ace knows his ****! Listen to the man!

 

[Aceman]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Here's the collected wisdom of the internet, on Les Pauls: the heavy ones are crap, the light ones are crap, the weight relieved ones are crap, the chambered ones are crap, the ones with short tenon necks are crap, the ones with 50s necks are crap, the ones with 60s necks are crap, the ones with 60/30 necks are crap, the ones with asymmetrical necks are crap, the ones without binding all around are crap, the ones with too many layers of binding are crap, the one with faded finishes are crap, the ones with solid color finishes are crap, the Norlin-era ones are crap, the new ones are crap, the ones with quirky new features like robot tuning are crap, the ones that don't try anything new are crap...what am I forgetting?

I guess the most important thing to remember is that no matter WHEN you buy, they're never as good as they used to be.

I'd sig this if it were shorter....

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

It would be interesting to know what Les Paul's own LPs were like, and what he looked for in a good one. He seemed to know a little bit about them.

 

[Dr.K]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Thanks guys, you guys hit on some very good points.

One of my problems is, I probably won't be buying new, I'd rather let someone else take the retail hit. I'm probably not going to get to play it before I buy it.

Which have maple tops, which have mahogany? I know the tonal difference.

Which have ebony fingerboards, which have rosewood? I know the tonal difference.

Which are weight relieved, chambered or solid? Again I know the difference.

I've heard some Norlins have Mahogany necks. Which one's?

Which ones have binding which don't? Are studios the only ones without binding? I know what biding is. lol

Was there as certain period of time in which you would avoid, is there a certain time thats better. There's a lot of misinformation floating around.

I'm not really suffering from analysis paralysis. I'd just like to know what I'm looking at buying and not be an idiot that gets burned.

Ace hit on: Electronics and hardware can be changed. Construction can't.

Again thank you to those that have taken the time to post here.

 

[formula73]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

I'd sig this if it were shorter....

I couldn't help myself. I fb'd that.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Thanks guys, you guys hit on some very good points.

One of my problems is, I probably won't be buying new, I'd rather let someone else take the retail hit. I'm probably not going to get to play it before I buy it.

Which have maple tops, which have mahogany? I know the tonal difference.

Which have ebony fingerboards, which have rosewood? I know the tonal difference.

Which are weight relieved, chambered or solid? Again I know the difference.

I've heard some Norlins have Mahogany necks. Which one's?

Which ones have binding which don't? Are studios the only ones without binding? I know what biding is. lol

Was there as certain period of time in which you would avoid, is there a certain time thats better. There's a lot of misinformation floating around.

I'm not really suffering from analysis paralysis. I'd just like to know what I'm looking at buying and not be an idiot that gets burned.

Ace hit on: Electronics and hardware can be changed. Construction can't.

Again thank you to those that have taken the time to post here.

1. Studios have mahogany tops, but not all of them, my 60's faded doesn't. Everything else has maple, other than lp specials and juniors, which don't have a "top"

2. I think just the LP supremes have ebony other than some special runs

3. Just the Traditionals are weight relieved, everything else is chambered

4. Don't know

5. Yep just studios and fadeds don't have binding. Maybe some of the "metal" ones don't but i never looked too much into those

6. Right now the early 90's ones are popular on the internet, but that could change 6 months from now. It's just about finding one you gel with. I wouldn't say there's any year where all of them were amazing or awful. Some of the norlin years were a lot different, but not necessarily BAD, trust your ears

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Alright man game on :smokin: I'll tackle this list now:


"One of my problems is, I probably won't be buying new, I'd rather let someone else take the retail hit. I'm probably not going to get to play it before I buy it."

Then don't buy one site-unseen unless you're gona be okay with testing it out and re-listing it for sale it if doesn't fit your fancy. It might be a more arduous process that way but it can be short and sweet -- both the Gibsons I've bought online have come up pretty nice.

Which have maple tops, which have mahogany? Usually everything has a maple cap unless it's a Studio or a 50's reissue Custom. Modern Customs have maple top and most Standards, Custom Shop Reissues etc do...

Which have ebony fingerboards, which have rosewood? Ebony is usually reserved for Customs but there are exceptions. You can tell them apart pretty easily.

Which are weight relieved, chambered or solid? 2008 and on Standards and Studios are chambered...everything else is weight-relieved. Solid is gona be a Custom Shop Reissue.

I've heard some Norlins have Mahogany necks. Which one's? Probably gona be random...I've heard that they just used whatever wood was in the pile back then.

Which ones have binding which don't? Are studios the only ones without binding? Yes.

Was there as certain period of time in which you would avoid? is there a certain time thats better? I hear stuff like this all the time...the mid 70's were the worst, the early 90's were the best since the 50's, blahblahblah...I think that since there is so much room for variation in the design, there's probably good and bad guitars out of every batch from every year...again...gota play 'em.

Hope it helps man. Best thing to do is just schedule a trip to a big lame guitar store and ignore the sales******s and play a bunch of them...or come to my big awesome guitar store and play some Les Pauls for a while :smokin:

 

[Aceman]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

It would be interesting to know what Les Paul's own LPs were like, and what he looked for in a good one. He seemed to know a little bit about them.

He actually played some funky shizznit. Not an off the rack by any means.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

#2 Norlin. Made differently, yes. Bad? Not so fast. Example one (a personal Favorite); How much of the tone is in the neck? Not sure. But I think it's a lot. A three piece MAPLE neck is bright and super effing strong. Pancake body (for the record, I have a Norlin with and without); You wouldn't blink an eye at a glued together BC Rich for 10 grand. What's wrong with an LP with glue? The top is glued on...no one ever mentions that? Just some things to consider.

Sorry, Aceman. I knew somebody would bite.

I know two people with NorLin-era Les Pauls. My best schoolfriend has a '77 Custom, totally original except for the nut. Still going strong! The other person has a converted 79/80-ish Deluxe (maple neck, slightly over-sized looking headstock), last seen sporting Classic '57 humbuckers. Neither instrument is the best constructed example that I have ever seen but they play well and make the right noises.

Somebody else in my area has what he claims is a '68 Standard. To my eyes, it looks like a total clunker. It is not the easiest player but the sound is righteous.

My point is that no amount of theory is going to find you that extra special specimen. You have to get your hands on several until the right one turns up (and you have the necessary funds!).

*

The two Gibsons that I own are Twenty-first century examples. I bought each of them after getting to try it out on more than one occasion - one at a shop, the other from a friend. In both examples, the acoustic sound was loud and dynamic. Both played nicely. No fret or hardware issues. One was blighted with P100 pickups but there was a simple remedy for that.

I did not actively seek out these two Les Pauls. They kinda drifted into my orbit. I recognised their virtues and snapped 'em up.

 

[Kramer Guy]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

You say you're not going to buy new? Does that mean you're on a low budget? If so, I would look at the following;

Gibson Les Paul Studio Faded series- These sell for $799.99 brand new and arew definately worth the price IMO. One of my friends has one and they sound just as good as a LP Standard or Custom IMO. Plus, you could always find a used one on E-Bay for around 5-6 hundred bucks if you play your cards right.

Gibson Les Paul Special-These were produced during the late 90's and were at the time, selling for around if memory serves me correctly, around $500.00. They have small Block Inlays on the neck. Again, check out E-Bay.

Epiphone Les Paul Standard-Yes, a Epiphone Standard. Believe it or not, over the last couple of years, the quality of these models have improved to the point where, they're just as good as their USA made counterparts, and don't cost as much.

 

[formula73]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Alright man game on :smokin: I'll tackle this list now:


"One of my problems is, I probably won't be buying new, I'd rather let someone else take the retail hit. I'm probably not going to get to play it before I buy it."

Then don't buy one site-unseen unless you're gona be okay with testing it out and re-listing it for sale it if doesn't fit your fancy. It might be a more arduous process that way but it can be short and sweet -- both the Gibsons I've bought online have come up pretty nice.

Which have maple tops, which have mahogany? Usually everything has a maple cap unless it's a Studio or a 50's reissue Custom. Modern Customs have maple top and most Standards, Custom Shop Reissues etc do...

Which have ebony fingerboards, which have rosewood? Ebony is usually reserved for Customs but there are exceptions. You can tell them apart pretty easily.

Which are weight relieved, chambered or solid? 2008 and on Standards and Studios are chambered...everything else is weight-relieved. Solid is gona be a Custom Shop Reissue.

I've heard some Norlins have Mahogany necks. Which one's? Probably gona be random...I've heard that they just used whatever wood was in the pile back then.

Which ones have binding which don't? Are studios the only ones without binding? Yes.

Was there as certain period of time in which you would avoid? is there a certain time thats better? I hear stuff like this all the time...the mid 70's were the worst, the early 90's were the best since the 50's, blahblahblah...I think that since there is so much room for variation in the design, there's probably good and bad guitars out of every batch from every year...again...gota play 'em.

Hope it helps man. Best thing to do is just schedule a trip to a big lame guitar store and ignore the sales******s and play a bunch of them...or come to my big awesome guitar store and play some Les Pauls for a while :smokin:

I agree on most points, but from what I've seen and read, necks were 1pc mahogany long tenon in 68, short/trans tenon 3pc in 69/70-76/77, 3pc maple through 81/82, and then back to mahogany, 3pc, iirc, until the end of Norlin ownership in 86/87. Specs all seem to have a bit of overlap but once they're established, they're pretty much set. Weight relieving started sometime in 82, from what I've read. I know neither of the 81s I've had were. Oh, and my mid 70s (late 73) Custom is the best I've ever owned.

 

[formula73]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Oh, and Jesus...did somebody really need to jump in and say an Epi is as good as the real thing, again?? FFS...

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

You say you're not going to buy new? Does that mean you're on a low budget? If so, I would look at the following;

Gibson Les Paul Studio Faded series- These sell for $799.99 brand new and arew definately worth the price IMO. One of my friends has one and they sound just as good as a LP Standard or Custom IMO. Plus, you could always find a used one on E-Bay for around 5-6 hundred bucks if you play your cards right.

Gibson Les Paul Special-These were produced during the late 90's and were at the time, selling for around if memory serves me correctly, around $500.00. They have small Block Inlays on the neck. Again, check out E-Bay.

Epiphone Les Paul Standard-Yes, a Epiphone Standard. Believe it or not, over the last couple of years, the quality of these models have improved to the point where, they're just as good as their USA made counterparts, and don't cost as much.

The Epiphone guitars are not anywhere near the quality of Gibson guitars. They do this on purpose.

It's the same reason the cheap little iPod doesn't hold as much music as the one that costs more. You don't compete with yourself in business.

 

[Kramer Guy]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

The Epiphone guitars are not anywhere near the quality of Gibson guitars. They do this on purpose.

It's the same reason the cheap little iPod doesn't hold as much music as the one that costs more. You don't compete with yourself in business.

I should had said that the quality of the Epiphone Standards are, just as good as SOME of the USA made Gibsons. I have tried some at Guitar Center along with the faded USA made Studios and they are as far as the quality of the build is concerned, just as good as the USA made faded studios and the Melody Makers, even the faded series SG's. I wouldn't go so far as to compare a Epiphone to a USA Gibson LP Custom, but go ahead and try a new Epiphone Les Paul Standard or Custom for that matter, and see if I'm wrong.

 

[JOLLY]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

ABSOLUTELY THE MOST WORTHLESS LES PAUL POST OF ALL TIME !!!!!


fixed

Wasn't this thead a purely genuine and curious Les Paul thead? Not a sarcastic locker room Les Paul thread? Went down hill from post #7 on....does every ****ing thead on here have to be a sacastic joke? Do a Google search on Marshall amps or so and so and so pedal or so and so tubes, or obviously Seymour Duncan pickups. SDUGF theads come up towards the top all the time. Don't make yourself a dumb answer on the internet. Actually say something that is worth Googling!

Run out of tampons?

 

[Dr.K]

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Run out of tampons?

Why did they call them that? They would've been better named Tamp-ins. :biglaugh: