Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

I should had said that the quality of the Epiphone Standards are, just as good as SOME of the USA made Gibsons. I have tried some at Guitar Center along with the faded USA made Studios and they are as far as the quality of the build is concerned, just as good as the USA made faded studios and the Melody Makers, even the faded series SG's. I wouldn't go so far as to compare a Epiphone to a USA Gibson LP Custom, but go ahead and try a new Epiphone Les Paul Standard or Custom for that matter, and see if I'm wrong.

i work at the second-biggest music store in the biggest city in my state

i get to play all the Gibsons, Epiphones and whatevers as soon as they come out of the box.

i've seen. you're wrong.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

i work at the second-biggest music store in the biggest city in my state

i get to play all the Gibsons, Epiphones and whatevers as soon as they come out of the box.

i've seen. you're wrong.

Summerhays?
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

i have some beefs about the lp: 1.) mine sucked. its was a 78, the high strings were always too thin, never stayed in tune, and it got less and less useful as music changed. the interview on DinosaurRockGuitar w Mr. X, an anonymous employee who has tried thousands, reveals that when cornered, one Gibson employee admitted that some wood rationing takes place, and consequently almost every unit with good resonance gets snatched up before it gets to the floor. but parts of this story dont apply to every region or era, but it confirms, well, conjectures, that the company doesnt handle the inequities of lespaul units completely unconsciously nor blindly. i also think that the 5 digit priced pauls add to the insult- not that they dont make gtrs worth such, but unlike other companies, their high end models are risky, even from a Japanese investors pov. and being rated worst company to work for is a negative.

on top of these sour grapes, theres the myth that LesPauls pioneering contributed to the LesPaul guitar. It didnt, and he never seemed to correct anybody who implied it did. McCarty is one of the unsung brainiacs of the Les, and Les was a famous solidbody player invited to endorse a model when Gibson saw Fender having success. but after some back and forth, the only Les idea they kept was painting it gold(!) Later, when they designed a model with his specs, nobody bought it. This doesnt take away from his unique genius, in pioneering multitrack recording, echoplexes, and of course solidbody elec gtr. and he was a great guy, awesome jazz player.

Recently i went shopping, i tried everything: the LesPaul turned out to sound and play the best for me. it erased my bias, and stigma: i renounce all my previous hating on this forun with apologies to those who thought i was on drugs. im pickin it up next month. im exaggeratin outright though, im getting an epiphone 100, with its fabulous bolton neck and slender mapleless lo cal torso. Maybe id rather have a gibson studio, but its 4x the price, and i know i wont sound four times better on one. some say the LesPaul was designed for optimum resonance. i dunno. every guitarist i like used obe and sounded great. so its hard to deny: gibson makes great guitars- lespaul is one of the very best. i was watching my collection of performances from the 70s show,Midnight Special: its actually damned ridiculous how many lespauls i saw. after teles, strats, the other 90% were lespauls. Wild Cherry had 2!:thats rite, if you wanna play that funky music white boy, you need 2 lps, like thin lizzy or whitesnake, or allmans.

lespauls are just the Elvis of elec gtrs:i can deal with it
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

i have some beefs about the lp: 1.) mine sucked. its was a 78, the high strings were always too thin, never stayed in tune, and it got less and less useful as music changed. the interview on DinosaurRockGuitar w Mr. X, an anonymous employee who has tried thousands, reveals that when cornered, one Gibson employee admitted that some wood rationing takes place, and consequently almost every unit with good resonance gets snatched up before it gets to the floor. but parts of this story dont apply to every region or era, but it confirms, well, conjectures, that the company doesnt handle the inequities of lespaul units completely unconsciously nor blindly. i also think that the 5 digit priced pauls add to the insult- not that they dont make gtrs worth such, but unlike other companies, their high end models are risky, even from a Japanese investors pov. and being rated worst company to work for is a negative.

on top of these sour grapes, theres the myth that LesPauls pioneering contributed to the LesPaul guitar. It didnt, and he never seemed to correct anybody who implied it did. McCarty is one of the unsung brainiacs of the Les, and Les was a famous solidbody player invited to endorse a model when Gibson saw Fender having success. but after some back and forth, the only Les idea they kept was painting it gold(!) Later, when they designed a model with his specs, nobody bought it. This doesnt take away from his unique genius, in pioneering multitrack recording, echoplexes, and of course solidbody elec gtr. and he was a great guy, awesome jazz player.

Recently i went shopping, i tried everything: the LesPaul turned out to sound and play the best for me. it erased my bias, and stigma: i renounce all my previous hating on this forun with apologies to those who thought i was on drugs. im pickin it up next month. im exaggeratin outright though, im getting an epiphone 100, with its fabulous bolton neck and slender mapleless lo cal torso. Maybe id rather have a gibson studio, but its 4x the price, and i know i wont sound four times better on one. some say the LesPaul was designed for optimum resonance. i dunno. every guitarist i like used obe and sounded great. so its hard to deny: gibson makes great guitars- lespaul is one of the very best. i was watching my collection of performances from the 70s show,Midnight Special: its actually damned ridiculous how many lespauls i saw. after teles, strats, the other 90% were lespauls. Wild Cherry had 2!:thats rite, if you wanna play that funky music white boy, you need 2 lps, like thin lizzy or whitesnake, or allmans.

lespauls are just the Elvis of elec gtrs:i can deal with it

I like this stream-of-consciousness post! Its like I'm inside your head ..AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

If your looking at buying a Les Paul just go to a store and play a bunch.

Unfortunately this isn't realistic anymore thanks to Gibson marketing policy. I live in Philadelphia, probably the fourth largerst city the US, and there are NO dealers in the immediate vicinity that carry sufficient inventory for this to be plausable. At most you'll find three or four Gibsons on the racks.

When the entry price is $2K for a Gibson LP Traditional, why should you have to "run the racks"? I expect to do this for a Fender MIM Standard at $400 but should expect that any guitar I pick off the rack at $2K is going to be worthy and up to standards.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

i work at the second-biggest music store in the biggest city in my state

i get to play all the Gibsons, Epiphones and whatevers as soon as they come out of the box.

i've seen. you're wrong.


Hmm.,,,,, pat yourself on the back. I'm sure you're proud to work for "Bob and Jan's Guitars' in Rhode Island. Epi's are BUILT as good as Gibsons, the components are not as good and the final product is not but get off your high horse.

too many people on this forum that own les paul classics, standards and traditionals that think their poop don't smell passing judgement on anything that isn't gibson and at the same time hedging their bets with arguements that you have to "run the racks" to find a "good" one.

you wanna be a les paul snob, get a friggin R9; until then shut up - your run of the mill gibson is no better than any other standard production, mass produced guitar from any other company.

it's the design of the guitar that makes the "lp' great, not the manufacturer.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Hmm.,,,,, pat yourself on the back. I'm sure you're proud to work for "Bob and Jan's Guitars' in Rhode Island. Epi's are BUILT as good as Gibsons, the components are not as good and the final product is not but get off your high horse.

too many people on this forum that own les paul classics, standards and traditionals that think their poop don't smell passing judgement on anything that isn't gibson and at the same time hedging their bets with arguements that you have to "run the racks" to find a "good" one.

you wanna be a les paul snob, get a friggin R9; until then shut up - your run of the mill gibson is no better than any other standard production, mass produced guitar from any other company.

it's the design of the guitar that makes the "lp' great, not the manufacturer.

oh my gosh..Oh my gosh...Golly..Gosh darn.. Gosh Dang it...God Dang...God F%$*kin' DammiT! Thats good,.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Not at all. That was the dumbest and most ridiculous thread.

Ok, so I use tampons (no I"m not out got a full box from Brent and Jessie) and you don't, but Jolly, I think we see theads the same way....maybe
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Back in 1977, when my ex-wife was bring me to court for more money and I had to come up with some real quick cash, I pawned my les paul for $350 to a guitar store in New London, CT.

I when back on pay day (3 days later), when they tried to tell me ‘sorry it was sold!’

I call the police, showed the police the pawn ticket and had the store come clean with it!



That is one of the few times that the police helped me out. (Come to think o fit, the only time)
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Ok, so I use tampons (no I"m not out got a full box from Brent and Jessie) and you don't, but Jolly, I think we see theads the same way....maybe

It's true! He did! Packed a guitar up with tampons and maxi pads and shipped it to him.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Good post, Aceman! I agree with a lot of the things you've said, but I do have some points to make. Respectfully,...

#1 Short tenon necks. Find me someone who can Hear or Feel the difference between a short and long tenon neck, and I'll shake his hand and say "Nice to meet you Eric Johnson." I have NEVER seen an LP broken at the heel, and never known anyone who could tell.

I can tell! The big thing I notice is the feel of the guitar, not so much the sound. The long tenon guitars I have (R8 and two G0s) feel like a really good Martin acoustic with the scalloped bracing. The guitars feel ALIVE. They resonate better than my short tenon models. Strum an open chord and the guitars vibrate from end-pin to the tip of the neck. The guitars I have that come closest to this are the chambered Classic Antiques, but not quite there.



#3 490/498 I have never heard any kind of music that I COULDN'T play with one of those. Yes there are pickups I would PREFER. But that's just my preference. Gibson, contrary to popular belief, can make pickups. Gibson does make some good pickups these days though BB's (except the Pro to my ears), 57's, and my personal faves: 500T and Dirty Fingers!!!

And I absolutely hate this set in my LP Supreme, LOL! I can see guys that use a Marshall type amp (I use a Mark Series Boogie) and play with a lot of gain (e.g. metal--I'm more blues.rock/country/jazz) would like these pickups. Individually, they sound fine, but I don't like them together. Everytime I switch pickups, I feel an overwhelming need to run back to my amp and adjust the tone controls. The 490R is a bit muddy, nice for jazz and blues; the 498T has an upper-mid spike that sounds grainy and edgy--perfect for a high-gain tone that cuts through the mix. Just not my cup of tea.

I liked the 496R/500T set in my 1960 Classics, but they made the input of my Mesa amps go crazy. A lower output pickup works better for me, but I did like the tone of the Hot Ceramics. Fave Gibson pups are the Burstbucker 1 & 2, and Classic '57s (including the '57 Plus in the bridge).

Everybody hears something different.



#4 Volute - reality = fail. A volute (little wood bumpy near the headstock) actually causes the neck to break on the headstock itself. Much harder to repair. Personally, I don't drop LP's often, but the times I have, they have proved indestructible.

Broken headstocks are a common problem to Gibsons. The volute was an effort to strengthen the neck at it's weakest point--where the neck transitions to the headstock. (It has to do with the cut-out for the truss rod nut and the shnge in the orientation of grain of the wood.) But, players resisted, "That's not the same as the old ones!" Goodbye volute.



#5 The weight. Hey - it's a big chunk of heavy wood. Grow a pair, or go play something made out of Agathis. Honestly 8lbs or 10lbs....after an hour does it matter? Or if you are sitting down does it matter at all?

Yeah, it can matter if you have a bad back. The weight of the LP has been an issue since the guitars were first introduced in the Fifties. Certainly the new chambered versions make it possible for guys who can't handle the weight to enjoy the style and playablity of a Les Paul, with minimal impact on tone. I would say that the peak of the bell-shaped curve representing players' weight preferences would peak at about nine lbs. Some guys like the real heavy guitars for their focused sustained tone, others prefer the airy resonance of the very light guiitars. My heaviest is about 9.3 lbs, the lightest is 7.8 lbs--and BOTH ARE CHAMBERED.



#6 Chambers/Weight Relief - These things were done LONG before Gibson told anyone (much like the neck tenon). No one said a word, or even noticed. More likely they said "Hey - light, resonates, open sounding" and liked it. Don't worry about if it is hollow, creme filled or whatever. Just play it.

The tenon issues bothered people back in the Seventies, when they quickly found out their new LP did not sound like one of the Fifties instuments. My two mid-Nineties 1960 Classic Plus Les Pauls have swiss-cheese weight-relief and short-tenon contruction; and other than pickup diffenences, there's not much to choose tonally between them and my short-tenon, chambered Custom Shop Elegant. These three guitars all weigh in at 9.1 lbs. Hmmm.

My two chambered GOTW Classic Antiques do sound and feel very diffrerent than the two 1960 Classic Plus guitars; but I enjoy them all.

#7 Good years/Bad years - I have played Les Pauls from pretty much every year since 1979. I have also played 68's and a 73 and 74. There is no such thing as a good year or a bad year. Yes - construction does vary. However, with a Mashall, and a Duncan Distortion (or SuperDistortion) any of them would have rocked your face right off.

Agreed. My Norlin 1975 Les Paul '55 Special Reissue was a great guitar, and I have never seen another one that was that good. Though, with prices rising even in the Norlin-era guitars, with $3,000--$5000 to spend on either a Norlin-era or a late-model Historic, I'm going to take the modern Historic, every time. Remember, a lot of us who lived and played back in the Seventies didn't think much of the guitars from that era, even when they were new. Fender, Gibson, Martin, Guild--they all had their problems.



Two made right after each other can sound night and day. Listen to it ACOUSTICALLY. Anything missing can't be added, and anything too much will need tamed. Pups can be changed. The wood can't. Some of them have the mojo, some don't, but almost all of them are unbelievably solid well constructed guitars of a general sonic nature.

Totally agree! It is all about the guitar that you are holding in your hands. Some good, some bad.

When Gibson gets it right, they do a very good guitar, indeed.

Respectfully,

Bill
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Dr. K, I would ask you what your budget is; and then I want to know how important a heavily flamed top is to you; and then I would want to know whether you like thin fast necks, or big fat ones, or something in between.

If you like big fat necks, and don't care about flame, get a Historic Reissue Goldtop. The 1956 Reissue if you like P-90s, the 1957 if you want humbuckers. Expect to pay about $2500 for a used guitar. If you can find a good deal on one, go for it. It will hold it's value pretty well.

If you just want a solid mahogany plank, no maple top, P-90s and student-grade appointments, look for a Les Paul Special or a single pickup Junior. All you need for straight-ahead rock and blues. The Custom Shop Historic models are a huge step up in construction and vibe.

If you want a plaintop (no-flame), but want a sunburst, get a 1958 Historic Reissue. Slightly smaller neck than the Goldtops. It's substantial, but very comfortable--I have smallish hands, and it is no problem for me. If you need a smaller neck, look for the Custom Shop G0 model that Guitar Center offers. A sunburst plaintop Reissue that features a 1960 "slim-taper" neck. This is my favorite. Used price will probably be in the $2200-2500 range again. As above regarding the resale value. All of the Historics are solid, mine all weigh about 9.1 lbs.

If you like black and gold and big pearl inlays and don't mind a heavier guitar, look for a Les Paul Custom. Ebony board. The top of the line for many years. Probably you're in the $2200-2800 range.

If you really want a sunburst top with a lot of flame and you don't quite have the money for one of the above, look for a Standard or Standard Plus. These I've seen for $1400 up to $2400. The Plus has the nicer top, a little more money. Go pre-2007 for a "swiss-cheese" weight relieved guitar (it will essentially feel solid), or post-2007 for a chambered guitar that will generally be lighter. Some will have a fat, round '50s neck, while others will have an even flatter, thinner version of the '60s slim-taper neck on the G0 Historic.

If you don't have that $1500 for a Standard, you're looking at the plain-jane Studio model. Often you can find one for less than $1000 used. They may not have the fancy flame or the bound edges, but they are fine sounding guitars, and true Les Pauls. There are a whole lot of budget versions out there; below the Studio, most will come with satin or faded finishes.

If the idea of spending more than $1000 on a guitar makes you choke, a) you're on the wrong forum, and b) welcome to the world of imports. Epiphones are Gibson's budget line; but many other companies offer guitars that are very influenced by the Les Paul. You can even find higher-priced EXACT copies by Edwards, Orville, and Tokai that will rival vintage Les Pauls--and often their prices are comparable to a USA-Gibson. Be careful, there are a lot of fake Gibsons out there. Remember the adage, "If it is too good to be true...."

Hamer is a US company (they also have imports) that is influenced by Gibson. Their USA guitars are of very high quality. And the Heritage guitar company occupies the original Gibson plant in Kalamazoo, MI, and employs many of the machines and old-time Gibson craftsmen who did not make the move when Gibson went to Nashville. Highly recommended if you can live without "Gibson" on the headstock and some design differences. Good values used; they tend to not hold their value as well as a Gibson. And then there's PRS--a chapter unto itself.

If you are truly a doctor with all of your med school expenses paid off and now you are raking in the dough and you can afford the best, go back to the Historic line and look for the R9 1959 Historic Reissue or the R0 1960 Historic Reissue Flametops. The big difference between the two is the neck contour with the R0 having the slim-taper profile of my G0; while the R9 is fatter and rounder, yet smaller than the big necks of the R6, R7 and R8. For many, it is the perfect neck--the in-between size that would make Goldilocks say, "Aaah." Entry starts at about $4000 used, and rises rapidly for Artist Signature Models and guitars with finishes aged to more closely resemble the vintage guitars of the 1950's. The R9s and R0s are the "Holy Grail" models; the guitars your grandkids will be fighting over before the first clump of dirt hits your coffin.

I really think the Historics are worth the extra $$$, and their high resale values make them a no-brainer, even for a LP beginner. Sometimes the higher-priced instrument still offers the best value.

Good Luck!

Bill
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Doc, I would recommend a used Classic. For $1000 - $1300 you get all the basic appointments of a LP at a reduced rate. They have the binding, inlays, humbuckers, HSC, glossy nitro and maple cap. The cap doesn't have flame, but if you are looking for your very own JP axe (and I know you are) then the plaintop Classic is for you:

Gibson_Les_Paul_Classic_Jn9c.jpg


jimmy_page_gibson_les_paul.JPG


Another option that is very popular right now is the Tribute series which are going for $800 or so (new) and have almost everything you want.

Gibson-Les-Paul-Studio-60s-Tribute-Worn-Honey-Burst.jpg
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

I should point out that the new traditionals seems like a great value at the $1800 price-point.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

The $1800 price point??? A great "value"

Say that to yourself a few times and see if it starts sounding stupid.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

Opinions respectfully noted Bill.

I will, however, go to war with you on the volute.

It was a solution to a problem that didn't exist, and caused a worse problem.

Dropped guitars break. A strats neck is no stronger (practically) than a Les Paul. However - drop it, just buy a new neck. Done.

Not so simple with an LP. The guitar would need to be essentially "deconstructed" and the cost would be ridiculous.

When a Les Paul does get dropped/whatever, the part of the neck that is thinnest (at the nut) is definitely the most prone to break. However, a break at that point in a neck is also quite fixable.

I maintain a) Most LP's are never dropped. b) Most of the dropped ones never break c) The 60's mahogany are the most prone to this - being thin and all the LSD and whatnot.

However - the 70's LP's are Maple three piece necks. Tougher than a Ford truck. No need for the volute.

And while it does bolster the WEAKEST point in a STRONG neck - it now shifts the breakpoint to the actual headstock. A headstock is a difficult pice to repair reliably.

There was no problem. Changes in manufacturing actually addressed the problem that didn't exist. The solution created a problem. The new problem was worse than the imagined one that didn't exist in the first place.
 
Re: Could you all give me a crash course in Les Paul 101?

The $1800 price point??? A great "value"

Say that to yourself a few times and see if it starts sounding stupid.

Are you saying that no guitar is worth $1,800?
Or that the Traditional isn't worth $1,800?
 
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