Cracks in the bobbins?

Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

the cracks in that one also appear more dominant in the slug coil, which was also asked about in one of the threads linked in post #10.
Yeah that's totally plausible. With screw bobbins, even if the threads are tight, there is material displacement. The threads cut their way down. This is more true with self tapping pole pieces but even with vintage correct poles, just the nature of threads means you'll have some give and take. The slug poles are pressed in straight. Some bobbins have little flat-topped ribs to grip the slugs, making it tighter all the way down. You don't see them from the top because the hole is round on top, but inside they're compressed. If that relationship is stressed, it's a lot of constant pressure. A little thicker plating on a slug or on the high side of tolerance, a little more shrink on the plastic, lots of things that could trap pressure in there.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Everything that isn't leesona wound appears to get them. I've had them on the vast majority of my SDs. My 80s JB is still crack free though....odd.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I own maybe 30 Seymour Duncan pickups and none of mine have that, but I also have lived on the west coast for that time. I have to wonder whether that plays a role in anything as the climates I have lived in are fairly mild.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I have never really had them on any of my pickups except the white ones, but it is interesting that it happens to some people and not others. And it is more common than I thought.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I saw cracks like that in a black one for sale last week, it wasn't that old but it turned me off buying it
I'm wondering if it happens in gigging guitars that come from a hot stage and then subjected to sudden cold
Sorta like how you get finish checking in nitro guitars for the same reason (even though the Duncans aren't celluloid bobbins)
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I saw cracks like that in a black one for sale last week, it wasn't that old but it turned me off buying it
I'm wondering if it happens in gigging guitars that come from a hot stage and then subjected to sudden cold
Sorta like how you get finish checking in nitro guitars for the same reason (even though the Duncans aren't celluloid bobbins)

Doubt it...It happened on my DK2 before even a year had passed it wasnt gigged lived in the house during that time (its since been gigged with no change or perceived ill effects)
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I have never really had them on any of my pickups except the white ones, but it is interesting that it happens to some people and not others. And it is more common than I thought.

I saw cracks like that in a black one for sale last week, it wasn't that old...
Yes to be clear it happens on black too. There are many more black humbuckers out there in the world than white, so its a question of frequency. I don't have data to back it up but it feels like there are colors that are more prone.

It doesn't happen to Dimarzio, but their bobbin material is different, and bobbin material does have an effect on the tone of the pickup. Very small, but enough in my opinion to make it matter. I consider it part of what makes a Dimarzio sound "like a Dimarzio" and of course why Seymour would stipulate butyrate on some vintage models.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

agreed. I see it on black as well. of course, most of mine are black or zebra. still, it's not limited to white.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I've had little fractures like that on a couple of mine, and it was not from abuse. It never effected anything and you couldn't see them from 2 feet away, so I don't worry about it.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Yes to be clear it happens on black too. There are many more black humbuckers out there in the world than white, so its a question of frequency. I don't have data to back it up but it feels like there are colors that are more prone.

It doesn't happen to Dimarzio, but their bobbin material is different, and bobbin material does have an effect on the tone of the pickup. Very small, but enough in my opinion to make it matter. I consider it part of what makes a Dimarzio sound "like a Dimarzio" and of course why Seymour would stipulate butyrate on some vintage models.
I have seen cracks like that on a Dimarzio that appeared to be from the 70's. Again, a white one. I have a suspicion white is someohow more prone to it. The guitar it was in was in pretty rough shape and it had spent time bolted on the wall of a bar.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Exactly. Vintage Dimarzio bobbins were different materials. Just like (well the opposite really) a vintage JB might be butyrate and not develop cracks. If I had to guess about the risk factors, I think its about the bobbin material first, the bobbin mold design second, and the pigmentation third. Some bobbins, like Zephyr Humbuckers use glass filled nylon. The material sounds great and I'd wager is nearly impossible to crack under the most rigorous of guitar playing and storing conditions.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Ok, then..the next question is what kind of effect does the material have on the sound? Is it something that can be compensated for changing the wind or other materials? Is the current material used 'because it has always been that way' or is there a sonic reason?
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Ok, then..the next question is what kind of effect does the material have on the sound? Is it something that can be compensated for changing the wind or other materials? Is the current material used 'because it has always been that way' or is there a sonic reason?

I gonna take a stab at this one. While someone like Frank has been 'behind the velvet rope' and can say for certain...my guess would be in part to do with the current material being a little more cost effective than the butyrate that was used a while back. The butyrate I have, from either older models or by request from the CS, don't seem to be as prone to this issue.

So I'm kinda sorta taking a stab, but it also makes sense that any company would look for ways to keep things affordable to remain competitive.


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Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

While someone like Frank has been 'behind the velvet rope' and can say for certain...my guess would be in part to do with the current material being a little more cost effective than the butyrate that was used a while back.
Sometimes cost is a factor, sometimes resistance to warping in the heat from wax potting, or choosing a material that is the "shiniest" or whatever. Different materials look more or less shiny, or they come off the mold with a texture. As for the sound, and using butyrate on vintage style pickups, I will start by saying this: It's an extremely small difference, so small that I completely understand if someone says "it makes no difference." But the fact that it does make a difference means it's on my radar. I am the one who personally conducted the tests while behind the velvet rope as you say.
Ok, then..the next question is what kind of effect does the material have on the sound? Is it something that can be compensated for changing the wind or other materials? Is the current material used 'because it has always been that way' or is there a sonic reason?
I can't (and wouldn't) reveal trade secrets. Every company has the right to privacy. I can say things that are already public knowledge, like "Vintage PAF's used butyrate" and of course I can repeat things that I already said in print or video while working for SD, because by that nature they have become public knowledge. So while at SD I shared some bobbin material information on a pickup makers forum, along with sound clips. But I withheld the data about some of the actual materials used, with a couple of exceptions. Basically I said I didn't like ABS. It was twangy and ringy, kind of harsh. I also talked about how I/we felt glass filled nylon sounded the "best" knowing full well that best is subjective, but it's what led to the GFN being used on the Zephyrs. It was balanced, clean, added nothing that you didn't want. In between those, there were several materials I did not disclose, other than to point out that they were "in between", and that liking GFN didn't necessarily mean that we also liked straight nylon without the glass fill. It wasn't about the nylon, it was about the stiffening and dampening factors of the glass fill.

The thing about the bobbin material is that if you do agree there is a difference, no matter how small, then no, you can not change a wind or shift tension or any of those things to compensate. If a Seth Lover has a butyrate bobbin, you can't (in my opinion) change something to make it sound the same on GFN. But I concede that to most people a Seth Lover on GFN maybe would sound exactly the same to them.

All of this to say that if you're ordering a pickup from MJ in the Custom Shop for example, its not just the decision to get butyrate, or the "normal" Duncan bobbin. You can ask for the glass filled nylon bobbins from Zephyrs to be used, and find out for yourself. (Same is true for the bimetallic pole pieces. Those things are great)
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Ah...I do get that it is a trade secret. It doesn't really matter to me exactly what it is, really. But if certain materials or colors were prone to cracking, other than a pickup that is supposed to look relic'd, it would seem like it was time to do more testing on something else, if it is as common as it seems to be. Can the baseplate screws being too tight cause it? Temps? Basically, if I can prevent either further cracking (my CC above is pretty cracky) or cracking on a new pickup, what should I do?
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

I would do nothing. Any tightening or loosening just shifts the pressure around and could make it worse.
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Well, yeah, for these, I am not going to touch them. They work fine- and the cracking doesn't bother me. I was wondering if, in your tests, you were able to cause the cracking. For new pickups, is there anything the user does that causes it? Or is it just a 'weird plastic' thing that happens to some and not others?
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

my first thought on seeing the cracks was that u have over-tightened the slug coils to the baseplate, and that the bobbins gave way from the pull of the baseplate screws inbetween the magnet and the spacer and that this was a mag-swap accident. :yell:
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

Every Yamaha 812v/w I've seen here in the UK has cracked white JB bobbins. Is SD still using the same plastic on current manufacture white buckers?
 
Re: Cracks in the bobbins?

The white bobbin uses the same material as the black. As Frank notes, some veins are common but not what you're showing here. Our production team is going to do an inspection on all white bobbins and investigate further and make sure everything meets the highest standards.
 
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