Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

[I NEED HELP123]

I tried the search function, but nothing came up. Has anyone compared these speakers, and could you give a description maybe?

I'm looking to replace the vintage 30 in my engl thunder 1x12 combo (60 watts). I would like a more vintage sound.

thanks in advance

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Can't help you on the Celestion, but Scumbacks are excellent speakers.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Creamback but the GH12-75 Creamback is preferable IMHO...

FULL DISCLOSURE- I absolutely love the 65W & 75W Creambacks, not to mention the ALINCO Creamback I have in my hand wired Bluesbreaker clone! Aside for my DSL 20 which has a G12T-100 sitting underneath it in a 1x12 all of my cabinets & combos have a Creamback or Creambacks in them...

For all my praise they are not a cure all & certainly aren’t for everyone though. I’ve got a buddy who plays the same kind of stuff I do, through the same kinds of amps/guitars I use, (although arguably better than I do) & he can’t stand them. He actually prefers a old 4x12 loaded with 4 cheap a$$ Seventy/80’s I’ve got which only exists because I needed someplace to store all the Seventy/80’s I’d pulled out of amplifiers & replaced over the years.

Some people’s children right???

 

[I NEED HELP123]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Yeah I also saw that video and thought it was very helpful at first, but then I read in the description that it is actually comparison between a 2x12 cab with scumback m75s and a 2x12 with one scumback and one creamback.

Thanks though

 

[I NEED HELP123]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

For all my praise they are not a cure all & certainly aren’t for everyone though. I’ve got a buddy who plays the same kind of stuff I do, through the same kinds of amps/guitars I use, (although arguably better than I do) & he can’t stand them. He actually prefers a old 4x12 loaded with 4 cheap a$$ Seventy/80’s I’ve got which only exists because I needed someplace to store all the Seventy/80’s I’d pulled out of amplifiers & replaced over the years.

Some people’s children right???

LOL xD

I think I will like them, because I like the greenback tone and that's essentially what I want. A higher power greenback and I have read that the creamback and scumback are really good ones.

 

[I NEED HELP123]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Can't help you on the Celestion, but Scumbacks are excellent speakers.

How would you describe the scumbacks?

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

How would you describe the scumbacks?

Scumbacks and classic style Celestions are necessarily the same things.

The Scumback "M" and "H" speakers are the same as Celestion "M" and "H" speakers. The cone that Scumback uses is IMO closer to the Pulsonic formula than the Celestion (Kurt Mueller?), but the voice coil, magnet, frame and so on are pretty much the same.

Celestion has the G12 speaker that is commonly called a "greenback" because of the color of the magnet cover. However, that cover came in several colors even though the speaker was the same.

The current modern "creamback" is the same thing as a "greenback," but can handle more wattage (25w v. 65w)



Sticking to just the current models, here are your choices;


You can get the G12 design in both a medium (M) or heavy (H) magnet. You can combine that with either a 75Hz or 55Hz resonance frequency, Fs.

Once you know that, you can decide on a wattage handling.

The current choices for the G12 are 20, 25, 65 and 150-watt versions.

The G12 "greenback" has a 25w rating with either a medium (M) or heavy (H) magnet and can be had with either a 55Hz or 75Hz (Heritage and EVH models are based around a more vintage "correct" design, and therefore have a 20w rating.)

The G12 "creamback" has 65w rating with only a medium magnet and 75Hz

The G12 "redback" has a 150w rating with only a heavy magnet and 75Hz


You still with me?


Scumback speaker models are offered around the same classic design but with more of a vintage sound.

The Scumback M Series is compared to the Celestion G12M. (You can choose the power rating and Hz)

The Scumback H Series is compared to the Celestion G12H


Scumback has further options of cone type, dust cap, and doping, but skip all that for now.


All that boils down to this. You can get the Celestion speaker for around $50 less than the equivalent Scumback, but the Scumback will have a more vintage "correct" sound. I would submit that most people would not know the difference.

Jim Seavall (Scumback) is a great guy with an in-depth knowledge of Celestion speaker design and history. I not only have several of his speakers but also have had Jim re-cone my blown out Celestions.

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

FWIW, Scumback does a break in prior to sending their speakers out.

 

[I NEED HELP123]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Scumback speaker models are offered around the same classic design but with more of a vintage sound.

The Scumback "M" and "H" speakers are the same as Celestion "M" and "H" speakers. The cone that Scumback uses is IMO closer to the Pulsonic formula than the Celestion (Kurt Mueller?), but the voice coil, magnet, frame and so on are pretty much the same.

thanks! that's what I wanted to know.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Yeah I also saw that video and thought it was very helpful at first, but then I read in the description that it is actually comparison between a 2x12 cab with scumback m75s and a 2x12 with one scumback and one creamback.

Thanks though

As long as they close mic'd the Creamback, the bleed from the other speaker not being a Creamback should be negligible.

The G12 "greenback" has a 25w rating with either a medium (M) or heavy (H) magnet and can be had with either a 55Hz or 75Hz (Heritage and EVH models are based around a more vintage "correct" design, and therefore have a 20w rating.)

The G12 "creamback" has 65w rating with only a medium magnet and 75Hz

The G12 "redback" has a 150w rating with only a heavy magnet and 75Hz

You are oversimplifying.

The G12M Heritage and the Classic series G12M Greenback do not have the same cone. The cone on the Heritage is different, and, supposedly, based on the original Pulsonic cone, while the G12M Classic has the more recent Kurt Mueller cone. If you look at them side by side, you can tell the doping and the dust cap are pretty different between both too. The wattage handling on the G12EVH/Heritage is more of a marketing thing to make them appear more vintage-correct, as in fact, they can handle the same 25W that the Classics can (hence why the EVH 4x12 which is loaded with EVH's can still handle the full-on 100W 5150).

There are also the 75Hz and 55Hz H versions in the Heritage range. The G12H(75) has the same cone as the EVH/G12M Heritage. The G12H(55) has the bass cone based on the older original Pulsonics.

There is the classic G12H-30 Anniversary which has the same Kurt Mueller 1777 lead cone as the Classic G12M Greenback, just with the H magnet. They don't sell them with the green magnet cover, but they're just a Classic G12M Greenback with a heavy magnet.

The Creambacks have the same cone as the Heritage 75Hz, but the voice coil is different (it obviously has to be to handle more watts). There is also an G12H-75 Creamback with the heavy magnet, not just the G12M-65 with the medium magnet.

The G12-35XC also belongs in the Heritage and Creamback family as it has the same cone. It comes, however, with a magnet that falls between the Heavy and Medium magnets' weights.

The Redback is entirely a different thing and not all that related. It has a 2" voice coil and a different cone altogether.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

You are oversimplifying.

Yes, and it was intentional.

Voice coil size, dust caps, doping and so one has no bearing on the OP.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Oops. My bad, sorry. Kinda missed the point, then.

Then again, I still feel the Redback is not really in the Greenback family at all.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

Oops. My bad, sorry. Kinda missed the point, then.

Then again, I still feel the Redback is not really in the Greenback family at all.

No worries and yeah, the 2" VC kinda kicks out the redback, but it is "supposed" to sound like a GB (according to Celestion).

 

[jeremy]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

riiight lol so are a lot of things but i have not found anything that actually sounds like a old 25w g12m with more power handling.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

riiight lol so are a lot of things but i have not found anything that actually sounds like a old 25w g12m with more power handling.

As I am sure you know, part of the "sound" is the amp overpowering the speaker.

I have not played through any Pulsonic cone GBs, but those who have say the Scumbacks are as close as you can get.

Off topic, but I am curious to hear what Dave Friedman comes up with. I thought they might be shown at NAMM, but nope.

 

[I NEED HELP123]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

I found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgr-V40gsYQ

If it really is true what people say about the scumback, that it sounds really close to an old pulsonic greenback, then this must be a good comparison. When I listened the first time, i liked the creamback, but after listening more and more, I like the old greenback better. Much more open high end. In comparison, the creamback almost sounds muffled to me.

Tell me what you think.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

“There is also an G12H-75 Creamback with the heavy magnet, not just the G12M-65 with the medium magnet.”

I tried bringing this up earlier but I think it may have gotten lost in the fray?

As I consider myself to be a “Creamback Connoisseur” my personal experience has always been that the larger H magnet & extra 10W’s make for much better low end. IE- thicker, sweeter, & certainly tighter when playing at higher volumes!!!

As I mentioned above I actually have an old ALNICO 90W Creamback as well. That speaker sounds great in any kinda vintage Fender’s, VOX’s, & it makes my 20W 6V6 Marshall Plexi clone sing like there’s no tomorrow! However if I had to pick a favorite out of the it’d definitely be the GH12-75W Creamback!!! Great cleans, great dirt, great for all out mayhem distortion, & a low end that can almost kick you right in the gut when you get it cranked.....

Also I’ve never really agreed with the “higher wattage Greenback” description either FWIW....

 

[I NEED HELP123]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

“There is also an G12H-75 Creamback with the heavy magnet, not just the G12M-65 with the medium magnet.”

I tried bringing this up earlier but I think it may have gotten lost in the fray?

As I consider myself to be a “Creamback Connoisseur” my personal experience has always been that the larger H magnet & extra 10W’s make for much better low end. IE- thicker, sweeter, & certainly tighter when playing at higher volumes!!!

As I mentioned above I actually have an old ALNICO 90W Creamback as well. That speaker sounds great in any kinda vintage Fender’s, VOX’s, & it makes my 20W 6V6 Marshall Plexi clone sing like there’s no tomorrow! However if I had to pick a favorite out of the it’d definitely be the GH12-75W Creamback!!! Great cleans, great dirt, great for all out mayhem distortion, & a low end that can almost kick you right in the gut when you get it cranked.....

Also I’ve never really agreed with the “higher wattage Greenback” description either FWIW....

Sorry for not replying earlier. I read a few times on some other forums that the creamback with H magnet is tighter, has less mids, and more high end than the M. That's why I thought I would like the M better, but now you say this, it makes me wonder... It's so annoying I can't just try em out!!

I will look into the H more, thanks!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Creamback 65 vs scumback m75?

I found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgr-V40gsYQ

If it really is true what people say about the scumback, that it sounds really close to an old pulsonic greenback, then this must be a good comparison. When I listened the first time, i liked the creamback, but after listening more and more, I like the old greenback better. Much more open high end. In comparison, the creamback almost sounds muffled to me.

Tell me what you think.

That's the 8 ohm Creamback being compared to a 16 ohm Greenback, though. 16 ohm speakers are inherently brighter even when they're the same kind.