Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

[stratguy23]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

Have they been used on a major album - no.
Are they used by several superstars - no.
Are they a signature pickup - no.
Do they have mega silly output - no.
Are they a 'vintage paf' with some 'special mojo' - no.

That's just my cynical take on what it takes to sell a new pickup.

I agree and think this isn't cynical so much as realistic.

I'd also add that "pickup that does everything" probably isn't the first thing people look for in guitars in pickups. Players buy Strats to sound like Strats and Les Pauls to sound like Les Pauls. Maybe you pick up an LP Junior to scratch that P90 itch. I'd wager that the average pickup upgrade to, say, JB/Jazz is along the lines of "stock pickups too muddy" or "need more output" or just "needs to sound 'better'".

Finally, the cream P-Rails is sort of a way to get around the Dimarzio double cream thing.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

I agree and think this isn't cynical so much as realistic.

I'd also add that "pickup that does everything" probably isn't the first thing people look for in guitars in pickups. Players buy Strats to sound like Strats and Les Pauls to sound like Les Pauls. Maybe you pick up an LP Junior to scratch that P90 itch. I'd wager that the average pickup upgrade to, say, JB/Jazz is along the lines of "stock pickups too muddy" or "need more output" or just "needs to sound 'better'".

Finally, the cream P-Rails is sort of a way to get around the Dimarzio double cream thing.

This "pickup that does everything" quote keeps popping up. Where is it written or who 'as claimed that the P-Rail is a "pickup that does everything"?
It does what it does and it does it extremely well. If you have played a guitar with P-Rails installed(and I mean played one for a reasonable amount of time not just a test drive at your local music shop) you will understand this. If you have not played a guitar with P-Rails then I don't know how you can make any judgement what so ever.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

I understand the basic premise of the P-rails is that you get the tone of 3 different pickup at the flick of a switch. They are identified as P90, Single coil, and Humbucker.
Do you think its assuming too much if we expect the "single coil" mode to sound like a vintage strat?

Considering that the coil in question is a rail, it is expecting too much for it to sound like a vintage Strat. I'm not aware of any rail pickup that sounds like a vintage Strat. I've always maintained that the rail coil sounds like a Vintage Rails, but in a true single coil.

As far as being three sounds, I've always considered them to have four. I've already described the rail and the P-90 speaks for itself, but there are two humbucking sounds. In series the P-Rails is a VERY fat humbucker; the closest thing I can think of is a Gibson Iommi signature. You can also run it in parallel where it sounds kind of like a bright PAF. It has the sort of rude tonality of a Pearly Gates, but with the harder A5 character.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

Nothing to do with tone. Tones are just lame excuse to buy more gear. The real reasons are:

1. P Rails go against the nature of guitar players. Guitar players hate gear that does everything. That's why else multi-effects never catch up with pedals, despite the fact that some are very superior in tonal quality.

2. Guitar players are promiscuous. Gear that attempts to do everything disrupts the urge to purchase more gear to satisfy the search for that holy-grail tone.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

This thread may be operating on flawed premises. P-Rails greatly exceeded sales expectations when they launched. They were regularly published in newsletters as a "top seller." Of course I can't/wouldn't disclose sales figures but some might be surprised to learn the other (popular) pickups that were lower on the list than P-Rails.

But the way the internet works, I'm not sure you can infer anything by checking various website's presentation of the information.

For example, if you sort pickups by "top sellers" on one of the major gear websites, they use an algorithm that includes their own revenue generated by the sale, NOT the number of units sold. So, say you're looking at humbuckers...if a set of humbuckers generates roughly twice the revenue as an individual. The individual HB would have to outsell the set 2:1 for that period of time before it overtakes it in the sort.

P-Rails WITH a Triple Shot installed is a relatively new SKU. By comparison to P-Rails without TS rings, when you split up a SKU like that, the algorithms don't combine those into one master SKU category, rather each SKU variation dilutes the performance metric of the others.

As for what motivates guitar players to buy, the versatility vs narrowly targeted single function products, both sell in the marketplace consistently. we have the tendency to project our own reality, so if you have 40+ guitars like me (and others in this thread) then I don't need P-Rails to get different tones. But I need them to get different tones during the same gig/set though. If you only have one or two guitars, then fhe versatility becomes a huge selling feature.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

This thread may be operating on flawed premises. P-Rails greatly exceeded sales expectations when they launched. They were regularly published in newsletters as a "top seller." Of course I can't/wouldn't disclose sales figures but some might be surprised to learn the other (popular) pickups that were lower on the list than P-Rails.

But the way the internet works, I'm not sure you can infer anything by checking various website's presentation of the information.

For example, if you sort pickups by "top sellers" on one of the major gear websites, they use an algorithm that includes their own revenue generated by the sale, NOT the number of units sold. So, say you're looking at humbuckers...if a set of humbuckers generates roughly twice the revenue as an individual. The individual HB would have to outsell the set 2:1 for that period of time before it overtakes it in the sort.

P-Rails WITH a Triple Shot installed is a relatively new SKU. By comparison to P-Rails without TS rings, when you split up a SKU like that, the algorithms don't combine those into one master SKU category, rather each SKU variation dilutes the performance metric of the others.

As for what motivates guitar players to buy, the versatility vs narrowly targeted single function products, both sell in the marketplace consistently. we have the tendency to project our own reality, so if you have 40+ guitars like me (and others in this thread) then I don't need P-Rails to get different tones. But I need them to get different tones during the same gig/set though. If you only have one or two guitars, then fhe versatility becomes a huge selling feature.

The premise is in current tense but your assertion is in past tense. I do agree that this is not hard data as I do not know what algorithm is used to generate "most popular".
My premise was qualified as a swag based on slim data i.e.: looking at Amazon and Guitar center Pickup search filtered by most popular.
Additional swag data is a quick look at Ebay and Reverb
---------- Ebay listings---------- Reverb listings
P-Rails---------- 285---------- 170
59s------------- 1225--------- 615
Jazz------------- 905---------- 581
JB-------------- 903---------- 446

So, I really don't think this thread was started on a false premise. The additional swag data measuring top selling pups via number of listings reinforces the premise that P-Rails are not currently top sellers.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

The premise is in current tense but your assertion is in past tense. I do agree that this is not hard data as I do not know what algorithm is used to generate "most popular".
My premise was qualified as a swag based on slim data i.e.: looking at Amazon and Guitar center Pickup search filtered by most popular.
Additional swag data is a quick look at Ebay and Reverb
Ebay listings Reverb listings
P-Rails 285 170
59s 1225 615
Jazz 905 581
JB 903 446

So, I really don't think this thread was started on a false premise. The additional swag data measuring top selling pups via number of listings reinforces the premise that P-Rails are not currently top sellers.

Two things that you might want to consider:

1) Most of the sites that you cited specialize in used items. Perhaps there is a preponderance of P-Rails owners are holding onto them. I know I have no intention of selling mine. :dunno:

I think it would be interesting to see how the "new" pickups sell instead of how they fare in the used category. Also, as a "non-typical" pickup, it makes sense that the tried and true popular items like JB, Jazz, '59, etc. would outsell it. In ANY product category, niche items (like the P-Rails) are designed to fill a specific need, but are not expected to overtake the more popular items. Instead, they are designed to do something that the more popular items are NOT doing in order to gain more market share for the manufacturer.

2) You were telling this information to the guy who invented them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[leevc5]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

Two things that you might want to consider:

1) Most of the sites that you cited specialize in used items. Perhaps there is a preponderance of P-Rails owners are holding onto them. I know I have no intention of selling mine. :dunno:

I think it would be interesting to see how the "new" pickups sell instead of how they fare in the used category. Also, as a "non-typical" pickup, it makes sense that the tried and true popular items like JB, Jazz, '59, etc. would outsell it. In ANY product category, niche items (like the P-Rails) are designed to fill a specific need, but are not expected to overtake the more popular items. Instead, they are designed to do something that the more popular items are NOT doing in order to gain more market share for the manufacturer.

2) You were telling this information to the guy who invented them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look yourself you will see that 95%+ of the listings referenced on Ebay and Reverb are for new pups.

Yes, I know it was the guy who invented them.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

I think what I mean is, within the thread there are sentiments such as "people don't buy them because _________"

And what I mean is that, for what it is, how unique and specialized the need it fills, it sells greatly more units than market research would have predicted. You might call that over-indexing. But in addition to that, it has even outsold more mainstream pickups that people would probably consider extremely popular. That's all.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

I have to agree with Frank here, although the P-Rails will probably never be as big as the JB. In my experience, there are just too many guitarists out there (bedroom/pro/in between) who just want something that either works well, is simple, and gets the sound their hero gets. I still love the P-Rail, but I think any device with different layers is going to cut off some of the audience. But I am happy that specialized products are available to us weirdos.

 

[Artie]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

That's probably the best advertisement for P-Rails I've seen yet. Sweet axe!

Btw, I bought a P-Rails set about 2-3 years ago. They're still sitting on the shelf. I just haven't gotten around to figuring out what to put them into. :2:

 

[htwheelz67]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

Yes that IBBY is sweet! I have major gas for one now.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

I think they're ugly, unless you choose the black models.
If they were only black an the blade was painted in the same shade of black of the cover they would be more interesting and naybe top sellers. Just my 2 cents. (Seymour Duncan, if you'll end up doing this I want my credit)

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

The premise is in current tense but your assertion is in past tense. I do agree that this is not hard data as I do not know what algorithm is used to generate "most popular".
My premise was qualified as a swag based on slim data i.e.: looking at Amazon and Guitar center Pickup search filtered by most popular.
Additional swag data is a quick look at Ebay and Reverb
---------- Ebay listings---------- Reverb listings
P-Rails---------- 285---------- 170
59s------------- 1225--------- 615
Jazz------------- 905---------- 581
JB-------------- 903---------- 446

So, I really don't think this thread was started on a false premise. The additional swag data measuring top selling pups via number of listings reinforces the premise that P-Rails are not currently top sellers.

'Top sellers' means items with the highest number of units SOLD, not LISTED. A pickup can be mentioned all over eBay for example but the sales is poor. Even if you have the actual number of units sold online, you simply can't make an assertion based on this alone cause sales are also made through other non-internet channels.

 

[leevc5]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

'Top sellers' means items with the highest number of units SOLD, not LISTED. A pickup can be mentioned all over eBay for example but the sales is poor. Even if you have the actual number of units sold online, you simply can't make an assertion based on this alone cause sales are also made through other non-internet channels.

As I stated: the premise was a swag based on slim data. The listing data is of course more of the same. I am using what is available and the number of listings are likely to have a correlation with demand, i.e.: sellers would probably invest time and money listing items that are most likely to sell first.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

BriGuy shared his P-Rail guitar, so I figure I'll share mine as well:

I installed the P-Rails a few months ago, but I just got the guitar back from BrianS after having him install a TUSQ-XL nut and Gotoh locking klusons.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

BriGuy shared his P-Rail guitar, so I figure I'll share mine as well:

I installed the P-Rails a few months ago, but I just got the guitar back from BrianS after having him install a TUSQ-XL nut and Gotoh locking klusons.

I love a bigsby on an SG

 

[bard2dbone]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

The "P-Rail and Triple Shot" combo is pretty unbeatable. I have a heavily modified Epiphone Dot with them and it's a killer.

Right now I'm curious about putting a P-Rail in the bridge position of a Tele. The bridge plate is set to mount a humbucker...but not a mounting ring.

How do I get my Triple Shot modes available? So far it's a P-Rail in the bridge and a Charlie Christian in the neck.

 

[gregory]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

Seeing that you started a new topic for your question, you might want to remove your post here so that there won't be two parallel conversations.

 

[Securb]

Re: Curious why P-rails with triple shots aren't a leading seller

P-Rails are great, but they just don't "look" right.

The same with PATBs.

They'll never be best-sellers. Period.

That's the way it is, embrace it and move on.

HTH,

I like the look and tone of the P-Rails but in my H-S-H (P-Rails - BL 250 - Pearly Gates) I felt the look was too eclectic. I opted for plastic covers. I am not sure why SD doesn't offer the covers as an option.