Custom 5 P-90?

[cheezemaster]

I think I may have asked this before, but don't know if anyone ever really gave me a good response.. :smack:

I was thinking about replacing the ceramic magnets in a SD Custom P-90 with the Alnico V magnets from a SD Vintage P-90. Theoreticlly this would give me a beefed up vintage tone somewhere between the 2 pups.

Has anyone ever tried this? Everyone seems to do this kind of thing all the time with humbuckers (hence the C5) but I never hear about magnet swapping with P-90s. Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

It'll work fine. Try it and let us know how it sounds...that's the only way to know. Lew

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

So I did it! And it sounds great! - at least thru my little Blues Jr.
This was my first attempt at any kind of magnet swap so I'm actully surprised I diddn't F it up! I just made sure to mark the magnets with a Sharpie beforehnd so I knew which way they went in..

It seems to be a best of both worlds situation - I get the dynamics and warmth of the Alnico magnet and the balls and punch of the custom wind.

My problem with the Vintage (at least the one I had) is that it was just too thin sounding - thinner than a regular Gibson P90 and there were some high frequencies I just didn't like - maybe it was just a lemon. The Vintage I have in my neck position sounds great. The Custom rocked, but it rocked a little TOO hard - it's all power all the time and didn't have much of that classic P90 tone - too modern sounding for my ears.

My new "Cheeze-90 Kizz-uztom 5" (trademark) :smokin: has that great classic P-90 growl and snarl and it's responsive and punchy. A good balance. The low end sounds great and the weird high frequencies that were bugging me with the Vintage are gone. Lead licks have a little more "vibe" to them than they did with the Custom too, the Custom was a really rip-yer-face-off pup.

No final word until I plug it into big ol' rawk amp (not at home), but so far.. so good.

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

Not that anyone cares , but here's an update on my C5 P-90: :22:

I plugged in thru my big amp last night and gave the pup a high-volume run thru. Sounds killer. Lots of punch and output, but still retains that vintagy warmth and classic P-90 growl. I think it's a keeper.

Just goes to show P-90s are just as mod-able as buckers, if not easier (at least the duncans are, don't know about stock Gibbys or other brands). I swapped the magnets without even un-soldering the pup from the guitar!

Something to consider for those who want to expand beyond the 3 Duncan models available. Presumably you could do all sorts of combos.. AII in a Custom or Hot, Ceramic in a Vintage, A5 in a Hot...etc..

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

thanks cheeze! Getting ready to do p90 ordering and this may end up and option ot consider!
cheers

 

[ES350]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

About to do something similar to a set of the hot P90 (small ceramic magnet) that I picked up cheap...they meter out at 11K and 15K. Will swap some old 60's M56 Gibson magnets in there and see what that does...may also attempt a partial unwind at some point to try to get them down in the 9K/11K range...

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

Are these using 43AWG wire or what! 11 to 15 k even on a P90 is awful lot!

 

[ES350]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

Yeah---IMHO, these are way overkill for a 'hot' P90. Considering that a stock oldschool P90 is in the 7.0-8.5 range, it seems there would be a place for a 'beefier' wind in the 9-10K range using full length M55 A5 magnets.

 

[WGTP]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

They are even more magnet swapable since they have 2 magnets. You could use a ceramic on one side and an Alnico on the other. I'm not sure the results...???

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

I don't have a meter, so I haven't checked the output of the "C5 P-90" - just using my ears, though, it's definitely less than the Custom w/ ceramic and definitely more than the Vintage. (which makes sense) It's also much warmer than the Custom.

WGTP - I think I recall reading on here before that combining 2 different magnet types in a P-90 doesn't sound good... I don't know why, and I've never tried it, though.. so it may be worth a shot. At least in the name of science :22: haha.

 

[ES350]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

Yes---you can get some strange brews going with the two mags---part of that weird 50's Hubert Sumlin tone was a goldtop with P90's, but one of the pu's had the mags installed incorrectly; a Gibson 'second' that Howlin Wolf bought him in a pawnshop. I have tried that in P90's---various degrees of wacky peaks and dips in the freq response. Maybe I'll try that in these; an M55 and the stock small ceramic mag...

 

[ES350]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

Well, I put two M56 magnets in a SD Hot P90 and...it sounds like a Epi Korean P90. Really; overwound, dark, sludgy---not good. Hmmm, maybe the ceramics were a good idea...

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

What's an M56 magnet?

The duncan Alnico 5s in the Custom seem to work fine. It's definitely a bit "darker" than the ceramics, but my guitar (LP Deluxe) is pretty bright sounding - the stock Custom was too bright. It works well. Definitely not "sludgy". I also think the Custom isn't wound as much as the Hot. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ES350]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

M56---standard Gibson length magnet used in T-Tops, 60's P90's
M55---slighter longer magnet used in 50's PAF's, early P90's

Maybe A5 is the way to go...a lot of the older Gibson stuff is A2. From the specs, it looks like the wind on the Hot and the Custom is pretty similar...10K neck up to 14/15K bridge...I'm ready to chuck the bobbins and just use the baseplates and hardware.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

I think 9.5 to 10.5 in the bridge with a really heavily scattered wind would do the trick. Probably Alnico 2 or 3 would be fine.

In the bridge pickup at least, mixing magnets might be actually a good idea. Putting the stronger magnet on the side away from the bridge would have an effect similar to winding a humbucker with a stronger slug coil -- a way of getting more punch and guts in the mids without the loss of vintage sparkle and shimmer that winding an extra 3k or so on the coil would cause.

I tried mixing an A3 and an A2 on my Phat Cat neck. The A3 made it just a touch thinner, which I didn't want. That doesn't mean this particular mix or another mag mix wouldn't work for somebody else.

 

[ES350]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

I may swap down to the modded Hot neck pu in the bridge (10.5K)and a Gibson I have laying around that meters out shy of 9K...I just don't want to deal with buying new pu's these days and would rather use what I have one way or another...either that or I have to get a bunch of old ones rewound or figure out how to get some old 50's Franz P90's on a Gibson base.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5 P-90?

That swap sounds like a plan.