Custom 5?

[lazer razer]

hey,i'm new here but i needed advice on pickups and figured this is the place to come.

So i was considering this pickup but i've never heard it being playedand i was wondering what you guys thought about it.It's going in a yamaha pacifica with a '59 in the neck.I play lead in one band and rhythm in another and i really want something pretty versatile,you know, classic rock to metal and decent cleans.

So do you think this pickup is a good idea or can you think of any alternatives?

Thanks a lot in advance and cheers for checking out my thread.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Custom 5?

Hey lazer, welcome to the forum!!!

The C5 is going to have an EQ like the 59 neutral, or scooped mids with extended lows, and highs. Lots of guys really like the combination. I'm not the biggest C5 proponent, but there are guys on the forum who make that pup sound AMAZING!

If you want a pup breakdown give me a yell.

Luke

 

[lazer razer]

Re: Custom 5?

Hey man,cheers for the welcome and cheers for the help.
Yeah,i think i saw your breakdown in another thread there now,it was pretty handy but i think you mentioned what i am scared of with this pup,that it will have too much treble in the light alder body of my pacifica.Any suggestions about htis or other versatile pups to consider?Thanks.

P.S. what the hell is this: :dance: smilie for?It's cool as hell...

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Custom 5?

Hey man,cheers for the welcome and cheers for the help.
Yeah,i think i saw your breakdown in another thread there now,it was pretty handy but i think you mentioned what i am scared of with this pup,that it will have too much treble in the light alder body of my pacifica.Any suggestions about htis or other versatile pups to consider?Thanks.

P.S. what the hell is this: :dance: smilie for?It's cool as hell...

/\/\/\/ lol

We think he is a dancing tampon!

What I recommend for thinner body guitars, or any guitar that has brightness issues is a pup with an A2 mag. A2P, PG, Seth, CC.

The CC is the exact same coil config. as the C5, but with a different mag....so if you get the CC and don't like it you can switch out the magnet for a A5 and have a C5, or a ceramic and have a custom.

The Custom has the most output of the 3, it has a lot of low end grind, and an aggressive edge.

In the end let your ears guide you. Don't be afraid to mix and match, my heritage has a jazz/A2p and I LOVE it, though most guys think that's an insane match.

Luke

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

I think that smilie is Frosty the Crackhead.

Anyway, it's possible that the Custom 5 may be a little bright for your guitar, HOWEVER... Let me run down a list of mods you can do with it (or any other pickup) to thicken up the tone a bit:

1) Lower the pole pieces. This will reduce the emphasis on the coil closest to the bridge, which picks up more treble than the slug coil does. Then raise the pickup by the same amount you lowered the pole pieces, possibly more if you have it set low in the pickup ring.

2) Change the magnet. The Custom 5 comes with an Alnico 5 magnet, hence the name. Putting in an Alnico 4 would smooth the EQ curve out a bit and give you a more vintage tone (an advantage since you want versatility), albeit with a lot more punch than a PAF-clone pickup. The downside is the average Alnico 4 isn't as strong a magnet and it won't give you quite as much output as an Alnico 5, a disadvantage if you have a non-master volume amp and you need to hit the front end of the amp as hard as possible. On the other hand, if you're like me and you get your overdrive from a pedal, it's not really an issue.

3) This will sound strange but pull the pole pieces out and grind about 1/8" off the bottom ends. At stock length, they spread the magnetic field well below the baseplate and dilute the field some. Shortening them concentrates the magnetic field more toward the strings and gives you extra beef without losing any top end sparkle. You don't have to even lose 1/8" to hear the difference. Even 1/16" is noticeable.

BUT BEFORE TRYING ANY OF THAT, you may find that the Custom 5 sounds just fine as is because it is a very versatile pickup -- so naturally, try it stock first.

 

[lazer razer]

Re: Custom 5?

Damn man,that's amazing i didn't know ANY of that before now,thanks a lot.It's hard to pick out pickups when you've had no experiance with them before really.

I was just thinking actually,I like the sound of '59s but i've heard that the bridge modal is too trebly,especially in a bright guitar so what would happen if i put the neck modal in the bridge position?

 

[lazer razer]

Re: Custom 5?

Oh yeah,i meant to ask; is it hard to change the magnets in pups?I always assumed it was something you would need a huge factory stocked with korean workmen to do.

also where would i get an alnico 4 magnet,do seymour duncan sell them?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

YOUR EDUCATION CONTINUES...

The neck model of any pickup is weaker. A 59 neck model has fewer turns of coil wire on it and so measures about 7.4k ohms (measure of resistance) vs. 8.1k for the bridge model. More turns = more midrange/less treble.

Keep in mind that what makes a neck pickup sound so full and warm is not the pickup itself, but the pickup's position under the string. The treble frequencies (brightness) of a string's vibration are found toward the ends of the string (bridge and nut), while the bass is at the middle (12th fret).

The bridge pickup is -- obviously -- very close to the end of the string and therefore sounds much brighter. The neck pickup is pretty far away from the end of the string and picks up a lot more bass and low mid.

Now that you understand that, you will understand why a neck model pickup placed in the bridge position will sound even brighter than the bridge model. The more turns of wire a pickup has (or the thinner the coil wire), the higher its resistance is, and the more midrange and less treble it will have. Bridge pickups have more turns of wire (higher output pickups use a thinner wire too) and have what's called a lower "resonant peak". In a nutshell this means it isn't as bright as a pickup with a higher resonant peak, especially on the attack of the pick or finger.

Now, go to the Duncan tone chart http://www.basslines.com/website/tonechart.shtml#hum and check out the "Bridge" and "Neck" columns under "Resonant Peak" and you will see that in every case that the neck version of each model has a higher peak than the bridge version. This is to balance out all that low mid and bass the neck pickup is seeing. The bridge model has a lower peak to tame the treble some so it doesn't sound like an ice-pick in your ear.

Again, this difference in the resonant peak is primarily a function of the number of turns and/or thickness of the wire -- the bridge models always have a higher DC resistance (8.1k for the 59bridge vs. 7.4k for the 59neck.) But as if that weren't complicated enough, the pattern of the wind of the pickup can affect a pickup's brightness, as can the overall width of the coil. (But nevermind those extra complications because no pickup maker worth his salt will divulge the secrets of his wind patterns!)

So the bottom line: The 59 neck model will sound even brighter and thinner in the bridge position than the bridge model so don't bother.

If you still want a vintage tone in the bridge position but with more warmth and woof than the 59, I recommend the Alnico 2 Pro or the Seth Lover.

 

[guitarsrock5]

Re: Custom 5?

hey zhangliqun i think you should be a pickup teacher. mark :dance:

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

You can get Alnico 2, 3, 4, and 5 magnets (and probably ceramics too) from www.allstarmagnetics.com. The magnets are pretty cheap from them ($2.00 a piece) but you have to give a minimum order of $25, which means you have to buy 13 magnets ($26.00). The upside of that is you can get a few of all four Alnico types to experiment to your heart's content.

Swapping magnets isn't difficult if you have some idea what you're doing. You have to be very gentle so you don't force anything and tear a wire loose -- or worse -- ram a screwdriver into the coil and kill the pickup.

But basically you

1) Remove the black wide surround tape so you can see the magnet to pull it out.

2) Loosen the four brass screws on the bottom of the baseplate so they stick out about 1/8".

3) GENTLY pry the coils up from the baseplate so the magnet will be loose enough to pull it out. You will have more trouble prying up the coil with the adjustable screws because they stick down through the base plate. Resist the temptation to use a lot of force -- keep in mind that you don't have to remove the coils entirely, just lift them up just enough to be able to slide the stock magnet out and slide the new magnet in, which is only about a millimeter or two.

The magnet is a rectangular metal bar about the same length of the coils (sometimes slightly shorter) that is under the coils and between the two sets of polepieces. You should see the ends of the magnet protruding from each side of the pickup when you remove the surround tape.

4) Take your screwdriver (preferable a small one) and place the head against the side of the magnet where all the leads are and firmly but gently push the magnet out. (If you push it from the other end, you'll be pushing the magnet into the wire leads and you could break them.)

If the pickup is "potted", i.e., it was dipped in hot wax to reduce feedback problems, you will meet more resistance because the wax will have seeped in around the magnet and will act sort of like glue. BUT AGAIN....resist the temptation to use a lot force or you will be sorry. If you're patient, it will eventually loosen up and slide out. Once enough of it is protruding from the pickup to grab it with a pair of needlenose pliers, do so and pull it the rest of the way out.

5) Take the new magnet and determine which side is north and south. The poles are on the sides of the magnet, not the ends. The north side should face the slug coils, the south side should face the screw coils. If you put the magnet in the wrong way, the pickup will be out of phase with the other pickup(s) in the guitar and you will get a hollow, nasal tone when you use the pickup together with the other pickups that you probably won't like (though some do).

It's best to use a polarity tester to determine the polarity of each side of the magnet -- but if you do put it in the wrong way, all you have to do is repeat the above process and flip the magnet over (side over side, NOT end over end).

6) Push the new magnet all the way into position and then re-tighten the four brass screws on the baseplate and you're done.

 

[lazer razer]

Re: Custom 5?

hey zhangliqun i think you should be a pickup teacher. mark :dance:

I agree with this guy.Luke Duke should be too.Thanks a lot guys,i was considering the a2p for a while anyway and i'm definately going to look into it more thoroughly now.Thanks a lot. :10:

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

hey zhangliqun i think you should be a pickup teacher. mark :dance:

Come to think of it, they should be paying me for this.

Seymour! Yer supposed ta have my money! Where's my money?

Wait, where are you going? What'd you go and get thing for? OOWWWW!!! I HATE the smell of buckshot in the morning! AUUUUGHH!

 

[guitarsrock5]

Re: Custom 5?

im not sure but i think they do custom pickups at seymour duncan but it might cost alot more. i dont know. mark :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

Seriously, there are quite a few knowledgeable guys in here like LukeDuke and ArtieToo, and I tune into their posts in case they reveal some tricks I don't know.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Custom 5?

im not sure but i think they do custom pickups at seymour duncan but it might cost alot more. i dont know.

It's true, and usually about double the price of an "off-the-shelf" model.

 

[guitarsrock5]

Re: Custom 5?

you are right sorry mark :dance: :dance: :dance:

 

[Marinblues]

Re: Custom 5?

From my experience, the C5 complements well guitars which a naturally midrangey or a bit dark.

 

[FELIX57]

Re: Custom 5?

the jb bridge and 59 neck is a really popular combo i was actually thinking of that for myself

 

[fretburner]

Re: Custom 5?

I have a question:

Does the lesser "highs" of the Custom 5 compared to the Custom, means that it is less bright?


The reason I asked is that, I was "fixed" on getting a Custom for my Epi LP Std., but somebody is selling me his Custom 5 at a great price.

I love the Custom because it sounds heavy and thick. I play metal (Megadeth, Metallica, Ozzy) and I definitely have to have a punchy "chugga chugga" sound.

I'm not very concerened with it's clean tone. But if the Custom 5 would give me that heavy, palm-muted "chugga chugga" sound and is bright sounding still, then the Custom 5 might end up better since it should clean up better than the Custom?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Custom 5?

The C-5 does clean up better than the Custom and the low end is nice and tight for highgain palm muting. It has a slightly more vintage tone than the Custom, but if you're using good amps, that's a good thing. If you stay on highgain more often than not, the Custom is a very good choice.

The CC is more warm in the low mids, and the highs are less open sounding and more buttery and rounded off.