Custom Shop Order Arrived Today
- Thread starter Leon Of Late
- Start date
JamesPaul
Well-known member
Steady lads...steady...
I won't argue against paying your money and getting what you ask for.
It has been my experience that the Custom Shop does a great job of delivering what one truly wants. My CS X-1 is a great example. Spec wise, it doesn't hit the mark of an original X-1, but it still mates perfectly with the original X-1 in my Lead II and truly delivers the tones I wanted. I did spend some time both sending in specs AND describing the tones I was after.
Anyhow, I hope the OP gets the desired tones. If not, I'm confident the CS will make it right.
I won't argue against paying your money and getting what you ask for.
It has been my experience that the Custom Shop does a great job of delivering what one truly wants. My CS X-1 is a great example. Spec wise, it doesn't hit the mark of an original X-1, but it still mates perfectly with the original X-1 in my Lead II and truly delivers the tones I wanted. I did spend some time both sending in specs AND describing the tones I was after.
Anyhow, I hope the OP gets the desired tones. If not, I'm confident the CS will make it right.
superpete
Active member
i've been thinking about this since OP first posted...and this is exactly how i feel. On the one hand, the pickups likely sound great, exactly like you want them to. But on the other, you paid top dollar for a custom order and for better or worse, you think they got it wrong.
Can you live with a little wax, or will the principle of it always bother you?
I think the only thing to do is fire them up and see if that sweet sweet tone makes you forget about a lil bit o wax!
Ace Flibble
New member
If it was any other variation at all, I'd say send them back. I'm a big believer in getting what you pay for, especially with any custom work. "It's custom; no refunds!" doesn't fly with me. If you've been custom-commissioned for a specific task then you have to do that task exactly as you were commissioned to do it.
However, I have yet to hear a difference between a potted and unpotted pickup other than more generally-unwanted artefacts in the unpotted one like additional hum or of course the infamous microphone effect. It's one of those things, like maple spacers and choosing a specific shade of black tape, that only makes sense to me if someone is trying to counterfeit a 50s guitar; as far as playing goes there's either no difference between the 'vintage' and modern methods, or the difference is only for the better. If we assume the pickups' coils and magnet are all as you wanted then I defy anyone to say the potting makes the pickup sound worse.
If the pickups do sound bad to you and not as you wanted then I would wager either A) that's more to do with the wind or magnet than the wax, and/or B) maybe they sent you completely the wrong pickups and someone else has received your wax-less ones. In either of those cases SD would of course owe you a re-do or replacements, but if the pickups do sound how you want then I'd just consider the potting to be an accidental bonus, quite frankly, and keep them. Sending pickups back because they were wound too hot or too bright or have gold covers when you requested white open coils is fair enough and should be followed through, but returning otherwise-as-requested pickups just for a bit of wax which actually, in all likelihood, is an improvement, seems like a big waste of everyone's time and resources.
However, I have yet to hear a difference between a potted and unpotted pickup other than more generally-unwanted artefacts in the unpotted one like additional hum or of course the infamous microphone effect. It's one of those things, like maple spacers and choosing a specific shade of black tape, that only makes sense to me if someone is trying to counterfeit a 50s guitar; as far as playing goes there's either no difference between the 'vintage' and modern methods, or the difference is only for the better. If we assume the pickups' coils and magnet are all as you wanted then I defy anyone to say the potting makes the pickup sound worse.
If the pickups do sound bad to you and not as you wanted then I would wager either A) that's more to do with the wind or magnet than the wax, and/or B) maybe they sent you completely the wrong pickups and someone else has received your wax-less ones. In either of those cases SD would of course owe you a re-do or replacements, but if the pickups do sound how you want then I'd just consider the potting to be an accidental bonus, quite frankly, and keep them. Sending pickups back because they were wound too hot or too bright or have gold covers when you requested white open coils is fair enough and should be followed through, but returning otherwise-as-requested pickups just for a bit of wax which actually, in all likelihood, is an improvement, seems like a big waste of everyone's time and resources.
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
If that’s the case, it should have been communicated prior to taking his money.
While speccing a custom guitar, I mentioned a lot of ideas I had. Sometimes, it was met with “I can do that, but if I do this instead, you’ll get what you’re after and you’ll be happier with the result.” A custom builder absolutely should mention potential pitfalls in the customer’s wishes. It demonstrates expertise and proves to the customer that this particular builder was the right choice.
ItsaBass
New member
Enforce your original contract, or negotiate a new contract.
In other words, get what you ordered, or agree to a price on you living with what you've got (i.e. live with the wax and accept a partial refund).
IMO, this error is worth $25 per pickup. That's what it would take for me to just accept the wax and not bother sending them back. Works out well for them too, IMO. They don't have to pay two-way shipping, plus interrupt their normal workflow to process and perform a re-do.
In other words, get what you ordered, or agree to a price on you living with what you've got (i.e. live with the wax and accept a partial refund).
IMO, this error is worth $25 per pickup. That's what it would take for me to just accept the wax and not bother sending them back. Works out well for them too, IMO. They don't have to pay two-way shipping, plus interrupt their normal workflow to process and perform a re-do.
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Leon Of Late
New member
I seriously doubt the custom shop decided to lightly pot my pickups “just because” they thought they would sound better or should be that way because pros before me decided they should be. When you order them, there is simply a slider for wax potting Yes/No. I chose No, and they came potted. Clearly a mistake or I received the wrong pickups.
I’ll be playing the pickups tonight and this weekend to see what I think of them. Honestly, I won’t know if these are CS Pearly Gates or CS Antiquities or CS Some Other Vintage Humbucker unless it’s obviously a hotter wind or obviously to me an A5 magnet. My ears may not be that good to tell by ear completely unaided though. I’d like to think I can tell, but I don’t know? How many of us can put in an unlabeled pickup and say “yep, that’s a Pearly Gates or a 59’ or an APH?” All these say on the baseplate is CS Humbucker Neck and Bridge. On the Box they say CS Humbucker and “Wound For” My Name. That’s it. My order sheet is attached where I asked for CS Pearly Gates Set and my specs, but nothing on the actual pickups.
I’ll know if I like them and if they sound great to me, and that’s all I’ll know. Then I’ll decide if I’m going to return them or not. I still haven’t heard back from the Custom Shop. They are likely running a light staff until the first of the year, or they may all all be gone for the holiday already, who knows, but I’m not worried either way. If I need to return them I have no doubt that the issue will be resolved gracefully and quickly.
I’ll be playing the pickups tonight and this weekend to see what I think of them. Honestly, I won’t know if these are CS Pearly Gates or CS Antiquities or CS Some Other Vintage Humbucker unless it’s obviously a hotter wind or obviously to me an A5 magnet. My ears may not be that good to tell by ear completely unaided though. I’d like to think I can tell, but I don’t know? How many of us can put in an unlabeled pickup and say “yep, that’s a Pearly Gates or a 59’ or an APH?” All these say on the baseplate is CS Humbucker Neck and Bridge. On the Box they say CS Humbucker and “Wound For” My Name. That’s it. My order sheet is attached where I asked for CS Pearly Gates Set and my specs, but nothing on the actual pickups.
I’ll know if I like them and if they sound great to me, and that’s all I’ll know. Then I’ll decide if I’m going to return them or not. I still haven’t heard back from the Custom Shop. They are likely running a light staff until the first of the year, or they may all all be gone for the holiday already, who knows, but I’m not worried either way. If I need to return them I have no doubt that the issue will be resolved gracefully and quickly.
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David Garner
New member
For what it’s worth, I have two sets of these and they’re both unpotted. The Custom Shop definitely did not pot them because they think they’re best that way. They offer them both ways for a reason — because some want them potted and others don’t.
I, obviously, don’t. It’s not that I think they’d be bad. It’s just that I prefer the tone of unpotted PAF types.
I, obviously, don’t. It’s not that I think they’d be bad. It’s just that I prefer the tone of unpotted PAF types.
Leon Of Late
New member
Well, I just played these for about an hour and I am going to have a hard time sending them back.
It was honestly hard to get off the clean channel...and I just have a DSL40C with the bright mod done and a Creamtone 65 speaker, so it’s not a Fender or anything, but these pickups are great. They have such a nice chime and tone to them. Bright without being harsh, articulate, nice treble response, good mids and upper mids. I’d say more mids and lower mids than upper mids if I had to pick, but there isn’t a mid frequency lacking or overly pronounced. I was most surprised by the bass response. I had expected these to be somewhat lacking in bass like the regular PG set, but they seem to have more. If the regular set has bass of 4, these have 5.5 maybe....maybe 6.
These still have a bright attack like a Pearly Gates set, but some guys have described them as very bright. I can somewhat see that when played clean, but when I did finally kick in the drive, they sounded a fair amount darker. More on that in a minute. I had no issue dialing in a great neck tone, which I always do first. I have had this guitar a long time (USA Dean Hardtail) and it is my favorite, so I can set pickups pretty much visually by height in the rings. These sounded best a full 1 1/2 screw turns higher than normal in the neck ring, and I raised the pole pieces a touch more than normal too. Maybe a half turn or more.
The bridge height might be two full screw turns higher than normal, but it sounds great too. The sweet spot for both clean seems to be on about 8 volume. The neck tone also 8-9 and the bridge tone about 7....just a little tiny bit of roll off. Both caps are DeHoviland Mustard Cap .022’s. I normally run a .015 in the neck with a PAF but I have had these caps in this guitar since as long as I can remember. I might switch them to PIO and a .015 in the neck, but they sound pretty good as is.
I didn’t spend a ton of time playing dirty, because I am waiting on new Power Tubes for my amp. The Groove Tubes in there are terrible. They only have 20-30 hours on them, but have sounded bad since I put them in. They aren’t what I wanted and are something I settled for. I have some Tung Sol EL43B’s coming next week. However, these pickups sound very good driving these very mediocre tubes on AC/DC and slightly higher type gain stuff. Nothing too hard at all. Anything too much harder starts to flub out and sound very poor. Let’s just say if they sound this good now, they should sound great after a retube and rebias. Like I said, they were a little darker under gain. I felt like I needed either more treble from the amp, more presence or less bass, so I’ll have to continue to dial that it...especially after I get the Tung Sol’s, which are supposed to be a brighter tube.
I am going to play them tomorrow through the amp again and through my BOSS GT-6 and good headphones, but like I said, it is going to be hard to send these back based on how good they sound clean alone. It never ceases to amaze me how great a job MJ and the Custom Shop do, and this seems to be another example. Obviously in the honeymoon stage still, but very impressed so far. Good news!!!
Oh, and of course they are dead quiet since they are lightly potted. Not sure how much if any difference I would be able to tell. Maybe a small difference clean. Likely none dirty unless they had bad feedback and then I would hate that part, so all in all this may have worked out just fine. More to come.
It was honestly hard to get off the clean channel...and I just have a DSL40C with the bright mod done and a Creamtone 65 speaker, so it’s not a Fender or anything, but these pickups are great. They have such a nice chime and tone to them. Bright without being harsh, articulate, nice treble response, good mids and upper mids. I’d say more mids and lower mids than upper mids if I had to pick, but there isn’t a mid frequency lacking or overly pronounced. I was most surprised by the bass response. I had expected these to be somewhat lacking in bass like the regular PG set, but they seem to have more. If the regular set has bass of 4, these have 5.5 maybe....maybe 6.
These still have a bright attack like a Pearly Gates set, but some guys have described them as very bright. I can somewhat see that when played clean, but when I did finally kick in the drive, they sounded a fair amount darker. More on that in a minute. I had no issue dialing in a great neck tone, which I always do first. I have had this guitar a long time (USA Dean Hardtail) and it is my favorite, so I can set pickups pretty much visually by height in the rings. These sounded best a full 1 1/2 screw turns higher than normal in the neck ring, and I raised the pole pieces a touch more than normal too. Maybe a half turn or more.
The bridge height might be two full screw turns higher than normal, but it sounds great too. The sweet spot for both clean seems to be on about 8 volume. The neck tone also 8-9 and the bridge tone about 7....just a little tiny bit of roll off. Both caps are DeHoviland Mustard Cap .022’s. I normally run a .015 in the neck with a PAF but I have had these caps in this guitar since as long as I can remember. I might switch them to PIO and a .015 in the neck, but they sound pretty good as is.
I didn’t spend a ton of time playing dirty, because I am waiting on new Power Tubes for my amp. The Groove Tubes in there are terrible. They only have 20-30 hours on them, but have sounded bad since I put them in. They aren’t what I wanted and are something I settled for. I have some Tung Sol EL43B’s coming next week. However, these pickups sound very good driving these very mediocre tubes on AC/DC and slightly higher type gain stuff. Nothing too hard at all. Anything too much harder starts to flub out and sound very poor. Let’s just say if they sound this good now, they should sound great after a retube and rebias. Like I said, they were a little darker under gain. I felt like I needed either more treble from the amp, more presence or less bass, so I’ll have to continue to dial that it...especially after I get the Tung Sol’s, which are supposed to be a brighter tube.
I am going to play them tomorrow through the amp again and through my BOSS GT-6 and good headphones, but like I said, it is going to be hard to send these back based on how good they sound clean alone. It never ceases to amaze me how great a job MJ and the Custom Shop do, and this seems to be another example. Obviously in the honeymoon stage still, but very impressed so far. Good news!!!
Oh, and of course they are dead quiet since they are lightly potted. Not sure how much if any difference I would be able to tell. Maybe a small difference clean. Likely none dirty unless they had bad feedback and then I would hate that part, so all in all this may have worked out just fine. More to come.
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Lucius Paisley
Well-known member
Good to hear.
Also good to see somebody say that a tube change has made their amp sound "worse". Not good for you, obviously.
Leon Of Late
New member
Thanks Lucius.
Oh, and the Custom Shop left me a voice mail. Dennis said that MJ checked her notes and she just missed my selection about not wax potting them, so MJ’s notes come in handy. He said of course they would remake them no problem ASAP, like I knew they would. It just flat out may not be necessary He is going to call me Monday and send a Return Shipping Label, but didn’t want me sitting the weekend thinking they hadn’t responded to my issue. Good people.
Oh, and the Custom Shop left me a voice mail. Dennis said that MJ checked her notes and she just missed my selection about not wax potting them, so MJ’s notes come in handy. He said of course they would remake them no problem ASAP, like I knew they would. It just flat out may not be necessary He is going to call me Monday and send a Return Shipping Label, but didn’t want me sitting the weekend thinking they hadn’t responded to my issue. Good people.
Leon Of Late
New member
Mincer, if there is one thing that Seymour Duncan does, it’s take care of its customers and do the right thing. Even if it ultimately costs them money. They are one of the few companies that still operate that way and it’s one of the main reasons they’ve earned my business for life. Yes, they make outstanding products that I happen to love, but they just treat people right and do the right thing, and that means more to me than anything.
