Dear friends,
I have a JB/Jazz set and I just can't seem to get rid of the mud. First, I am aware that these PUs should be anything but muddy, but bear with me, please.
SYMPTOMS (BOTH PUs):
* the three low strings, D to E (standard tuning) sound as if through wool, while the other, high strings seem fine
* there is serious boominess around the low F# through to A# (92.5-116.5Hz)
* there is an annoying lack of definition for fast passages on the low three strings, all across the fretboard; if I do a drone on one string (say A) and play something fast on another (say D) it's mud fest all the way
* in short, these strings sound more or less dead, dull at the best
* distortion obviously accents these problems ten fold; there is no bass tightness whatsoever
SETUP (at least decent, IMO):
GUITAR: Schecter C1 Classic: maple neck-through with walnut stripes, rosewood fingerboard, mahogany body (wings). This neck-through construction basically yields a maple guitar, as the neck is the most important. The acoustic sound is articulated, has plenty of high-end, and the bass seems tame. It has a 25.5'' scale and 24 frets. The action is about 2 mm at the 17th fret - I experimented with it, too. Plugged in, it screams with a lot of highs and little bass, that needs to be increased on the amp, which achieves this flabby, boomy, wooly bass I'm speaking of. It lacks low mids, I think. I tend to find myself having to roll off the treble on the amp (to a maximum of 5) and presence, and up the mids (sometimes to 6-6.5) and the bass (to 8-9; I know, you'll say "dude, here's your problem!", but without it, there's very little bass to be had, everything sound very flat, uni-dimensional; the problem is the bass control on the amp seems to amplify the wrong frequencies, or, rather, has to work with the wrong low frequencies to begin with). Pickups are as stated, Jazz neck/JB bridge, heights are 3.5mm Jazz, 2mm JB, which causes the PUs to actually be lower on the bass side, screw raised circa 1-1.5 mm on bass side (as of now, I tried many configurations short of cutting the screws - removing them all together kills all fatness)
STRINGS: Ernie Ball Slinky(10s), GHS Santana (9.5s), GHS Boomers (10s), D'Addario EXP 110 (10s) - all with the same problem as above
ELECTRONICS: Volume and tone Bourns 500K audio taper push-pull, 5-way super-switch (Fender original parts) (Pos 5: neck full, Pos 4: neck split outer coil, Pos 3: both humbuckers, parallel, Pos 2: neck full + bridge outer coil, series, Pos 1: bridge full). 0.022uF Russian PIO cap, '50s wiring. The volume pot has a resistor between input and output lugs, to correct taper. Although this is a high-quality audio taper pot, with these pickups it works just like an linear one (basically all the action takes place between 10 an 8), hence the need for the resistor.
CABLE: 3-wire cable (two of them soledered together, of course), with Neutrik TS jacks
AMP/MULTIFX: I use a Frontman 212R, a Zoom G5 (either in the amp return, or direct into the mixer, or with headphones), or Amplitube 3 on my PC - the above problems persist in all scenarios.
WHAT I'VE ALREADY TRIED:
* string changes, different brands/gauges
* pick-up height/screw pole adjustment (I've done this so much I'm sick of it by now)
* EQ: with -3 to -6 dB cuts with a Q around 4-8 at 80Hz and 250Hz things clear up rather decently, but the cost is some overall loss of "body", noticeable especially in the split/parallel positions; this is a very unsatisfactory solution, especially since I do not want to EQ all my presets this way. It is too much.
* other common sense stuff, like less distortion, lower the bass on the amp or amp sim, experiment with different cab sims etc.. I even tried different picks and tried to adapt my playing style (i.e. excessive attention to muting, harder attack, all in the attempt of gaining more definition - but these take you only so far)
None of the above really worked.
Now, I was always of the opinion that pickups should be changed only as the last resort, after trying at least all of the above. But now I'm at a crossroads, having done all that. I am still unhappy with the tone. I do appreciate that my "muddiness" is another man's "warmth", but I really think something is off. I'm especially disappointed by the lack of definition in the bass notes, where I love to play very fast passages with distortion, sometimes using pull-offs/hammer-ons intensively, therefore not benefiting from the pick attack on those legato notes, and with this guitar the effect is completely lackluster due to utter lack of definition. Chords are also rather muddy, which is really puzzling, as I'm using the Jazz on a 25.5 inch 24-fretter!
I have a Custom SH-5 in a Strat clone, bridge position, and that is the embodiment of definition and "chug". However, that's a completely different instrument, so I can't venture an opinion as to how that would sound in the Schecter (will probably try it). I'm not an extreme metal guy, but I do like "chug" and definition in the bass when it comes to fast riffs and scalar runs, and I don't expect single coil clarity from a neck HB, but still.
Do you have any other advice? Or should I start look for different pickups at this point? If so, what would you recommend in this particular instance?
Thanks in advance!
I have a JB/Jazz set and I just can't seem to get rid of the mud. First, I am aware that these PUs should be anything but muddy, but bear with me, please.
SYMPTOMS (BOTH PUs):
* the three low strings, D to E (standard tuning) sound as if through wool, while the other, high strings seem fine
* there is serious boominess around the low F# through to A# (92.5-116.5Hz)
* there is an annoying lack of definition for fast passages on the low three strings, all across the fretboard; if I do a drone on one string (say A) and play something fast on another (say D) it's mud fest all the way
* in short, these strings sound more or less dead, dull at the best
* distortion obviously accents these problems ten fold; there is no bass tightness whatsoever
SETUP (at least decent, IMO):
GUITAR: Schecter C1 Classic: maple neck-through with walnut stripes, rosewood fingerboard, mahogany body (wings). This neck-through construction basically yields a maple guitar, as the neck is the most important. The acoustic sound is articulated, has plenty of high-end, and the bass seems tame. It has a 25.5'' scale and 24 frets. The action is about 2 mm at the 17th fret - I experimented with it, too. Plugged in, it screams with a lot of highs and little bass, that needs to be increased on the amp, which achieves this flabby, boomy, wooly bass I'm speaking of. It lacks low mids, I think. I tend to find myself having to roll off the treble on the amp (to a maximum of 5) and presence, and up the mids (sometimes to 6-6.5) and the bass (to 8-9; I know, you'll say "dude, here's your problem!", but without it, there's very little bass to be had, everything sound very flat, uni-dimensional; the problem is the bass control on the amp seems to amplify the wrong frequencies, or, rather, has to work with the wrong low frequencies to begin with). Pickups are as stated, Jazz neck/JB bridge, heights are 3.5mm Jazz, 2mm JB, which causes the PUs to actually be lower on the bass side, screw raised circa 1-1.5 mm on bass side (as of now, I tried many configurations short of cutting the screws - removing them all together kills all fatness)
STRINGS: Ernie Ball Slinky(10s), GHS Santana (9.5s), GHS Boomers (10s), D'Addario EXP 110 (10s) - all with the same problem as above
ELECTRONICS: Volume and tone Bourns 500K audio taper push-pull, 5-way super-switch (Fender original parts) (Pos 5: neck full, Pos 4: neck split outer coil, Pos 3: both humbuckers, parallel, Pos 2: neck full + bridge outer coil, series, Pos 1: bridge full). 0.022uF Russian PIO cap, '50s wiring. The volume pot has a resistor between input and output lugs, to correct taper. Although this is a high-quality audio taper pot, with these pickups it works just like an linear one (basically all the action takes place between 10 an 8), hence the need for the resistor.
CABLE: 3-wire cable (two of them soledered together, of course), with Neutrik TS jacks
AMP/MULTIFX: I use a Frontman 212R, a Zoom G5 (either in the amp return, or direct into the mixer, or with headphones), or Amplitube 3 on my PC - the above problems persist in all scenarios.
WHAT I'VE ALREADY TRIED:
* string changes, different brands/gauges
* pick-up height/screw pole adjustment (I've done this so much I'm sick of it by now)
* EQ: with -3 to -6 dB cuts with a Q around 4-8 at 80Hz and 250Hz things clear up rather decently, but the cost is some overall loss of "body", noticeable especially in the split/parallel positions; this is a very unsatisfactory solution, especially since I do not want to EQ all my presets this way. It is too much.
* other common sense stuff, like less distortion, lower the bass on the amp or amp sim, experiment with different cab sims etc.. I even tried different picks and tried to adapt my playing style (i.e. excessive attention to muting, harder attack, all in the attempt of gaining more definition - but these take you only so far)
None of the above really worked.
Now, I was always of the opinion that pickups should be changed only as the last resort, after trying at least all of the above. But now I'm at a crossroads, having done all that. I am still unhappy with the tone. I do appreciate that my "muddiness" is another man's "warmth", but I really think something is off. I'm especially disappointed by the lack of definition in the bass notes, where I love to play very fast passages with distortion, sometimes using pull-offs/hammer-ons intensively, therefore not benefiting from the pick attack on those legato notes, and with this guitar the effect is completely lackluster due to utter lack of definition. Chords are also rather muddy, which is really puzzling, as I'm using the Jazz on a 25.5 inch 24-fretter!
I have a Custom SH-5 in a Strat clone, bridge position, and that is the embodiment of definition and "chug". However, that's a completely different instrument, so I can't venture an opinion as to how that would sound in the Schecter (will probably try it). I'm not an extreme metal guy, but I do like "chug" and definition in the bass when it comes to fast riffs and scalar runs, and I don't expect single coil clarity from a neck HB, but still.
Do you have any other advice? Or should I start look for different pickups at this point? If so, what would you recommend in this particular instance?
Thanks in advance!
