Dead Sounding Guitar

[Hsb]

Im trying to figure out what, if anything I can do with one of my guitars, its an ESP LTD M-400M, it has absolutely no life to it what so ever. When I received the guitar, new, it came with a Custom 5/Jazz set and at the time I thought I was just not gelling with the C5, so I ordered a Black Winter for the bridge and although it helped a little, the guitar still feels restrained, if that makes sense.

The guitar is "mahogany" with a maple neck and rosewood or jatoba fingerboard, that depends on the site you read the description on. Im leaning to its jatoba, as its more light brown vs a darker brown Ive always seen on my rosewood boards Ive had or have now. It has a FR Special bridge, I changed out the saddles as one of the originals ones died pretty quickly. I was also planning on replacing the zinc block with a brass one but oddly the screw holes in the block do not line up with the mounting holes on the FRS.

I know if I upgraded to a legit FR, it would help some, but would it be worth the cost vs the increase in sound Id get out of it?

Like I said above, the best way I can explain the tone of the guitar is it sounds choked and restrained. It doesnt matter which amp I play thru, Marshall, H&K or any of the amp models in the Headrush MX5.

Any suggestions how I may correct some of this?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

How does it sound acoustically? Does it sound usable acoustically? If so, then it's the electronics. Maybe bad pots.

If not, I would try swapping out the Floyd. THe Specials are honestly not much better than the old LFR's that everybody hated. Gotoh Floyds are inexpensive for how good they are.

 

[Mincer]

Also, some guitars just don't resonate. It can be a combination of different factors. The thing you have to decide is if it is worth investing more money (like if it plays great and you love the guitar otherwise) or just sell it.

 

[Securb]

If so, then it's the electronics. Maybe bad pots..

Agreed. I would jump the pickup directly to the jack. If it still sounds lifeless, it could be the guitar. The Floyd could be an issue, but not as dramatically as you are reporting. Guitars are wood, and all wood is different. You may have gotten an unresonant piece of lumber. Eliminating the FR would mean investing a few hundred in a new bridge. That is a considerable investment to find out if the bridge is the problem, especially if it isn't and you are back to square one.

 

[beaubrummels]

I think if you have a Floyd, you're not really hearing the wood of the guitar body as much. The strings aren't anchored to anything (except the tuners/neck) that is strongly attached to the body (just a knife edge is all the couples the bridge to the body.). I would look at bridge changes first. If it were me.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Also, some guitars just don't resonate. It can be a combination of different factors. The thing you have to decide is if it is worth investing more money (like if it plays great and you love the guitar otherwise) or just sell it.

That could very well be the case.

I had a Jackson DKMG that was just plain like that.

The trem was trash. But that could be fixed.

The body was super heavy. But I'm sure the right pickups might have helped that.

But the breaking point was the bridge pickup was like a mile apart from the bridge itself. Many Jacksons are like that. That's why I figured there was nothing I could do about that, so I sold it.

But if the guitar sound good acoustically, I'm sure it'd be serviceable. And if it plays well, a better trem will certainly help.

 

[Hsb]

How does it sound acoustically? Does it sound usable acoustically? If so, then it's the electronics. Maybe bad pots.

If not, I would try swapping out the Floyd. THe Specials are honestly not much better than the old LFR's that everybody hated. Gotoh Floyds are inexpensive for how good they are.

In comparison to my other LTD and my Iceman, this sounds dull acoustically. I just picked it up and strummed each guitar and it just sounds flat. I had thought about putting an original FR or a Gotoh Floyd in it but they basically cost about half of what I paid for the guitar itself.

As for loving the guitar, I can take it or leave it. Its fun to play with the FR every so often but what a pita it is to change the strings. I used to have an Ibanez RG570 with their Edge trem that never gave me a lick of issue, other than being a pita to change strings but I had that when I didnt exactly know what I was doing when changing strings.

The more I mess with the guitar, I just think it did not end up w a resonant piece of wood for the body. Since the BW should sit somewhere in the neighborhood of the Distortion and JB, Id expect it to sound somewhere in those two pickups, but it feels like there is a compressor turned all the way up on the guitar that doesnt affect anything else.

 

[Top-L]

I have an M400 built in 2019, with similar specs.

Acoustically it is moderately resonant, but it has a low mid growl to it compared to my other bolt on guitars. I think mine is close to 9 lbs. I replaced the FRS block with an OFR block, which didn't make as big a difference in this guitar as it has in other guitars.

The thing that fixed this guitar, that took a while to figure out, was that it doesn't have a tone control and shipped with a 500K pot. A 250K pot is better and makes it sound more complete. The Custom 5 and Jazz were replaced with a D-Sonic and PAF Pro, but it was done before I changed the pot to a 250K so I don't have time with the original pickups with the correct pot. I still don't think I would like the C5 in this guitar and the Jazz was not what I was looking for either. Odd choice for this guitar really.

Don't know why you can't retrofit OFR block to yours, they are part compatible.

IME, basswood bolt on guitars are more resonant than the heavy mahogony ones. Basswood has those mid frequencies that stand out. The M400 is more subdued, but plugged in it is not lacking.

 

[Hsb]

Yeah the blocks should be compatable but when I went to install the block, the screw holes didnt align with the mounting holes. I was going to send it back to Sweetwater but they told me to keep it. I even held the two blocks side by side and you could they were lined up the same.

Acoustically I hear the strings more than I hear the wood, esp in comparison to the other two guitars. The other two are loud and bright and very resonant, this one acoustically is dull and relatively lifeless.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Honestly, sounds like you don't really like the guitar all that much. No point in putting the time and effort, then. Move on the next one. These days, a Japanese Ibanez RG550 is about as much as a midrange LTD. I'd give those a try if you want a floating trem.

 

[Top-L]

Yeah the blocks should be compatable but when I went to install the block, the screw holes didnt align with the mounting holes. I was going to send it back to Sweetwater but they told me to keep it. I even held the two blocks side by side and you could they were lined up the same.

Acoustically I hear the strings more than I hear the wood, esp in comparison to the other two guitars. The other two are loud and bright and very resonant, this one acoustically is dull and relatively lifeless.

Its just how the sound waves transfer through the body (or not).

When you strum, if you hold the guitar away from your body and listen from behind, you will notice that it is more resonant when listening to the Floyd in its cavity. The heavy mahogony doesn't translate those through to the front of the guitar as much.

Plugged in it sounds good. But I agree its not inspirational. What inspires me about it is how it is perfect in every other way. And it does have a deeper bass than my basswood guitars.

OFR tone block is mandatory upgrade and it should sound same as real OFR if you already replaced saddles.

For bolt on guitars, I really prefer basswood. I have some mahogony sabres that are very resonany, but they are really skinny guitars. So heavy mahogony does not pick up the vibrations from the floyd as well ime. Unknown what it does to the plugged in tone or sustain. I suspect not much.

 

[ehdwuld]

I have candy apple Squire strat
that i got from Ascension years ago

He moved on because it was just blah
Dead
Something missing

My buddy borrowed it

He found it the same way
As do I

Its just a dead guitar

I plan to swap pickups here shortly
And see if that helps

But

Yeah

Some times

They are just blah

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

My humble suggestions.

If it were mine, and I generally liked the guitar... I would do the following:

Put some EMGs in that thing. (Swap all the electronics to active obviously) They are Uber bright and take all the wood out of the equation. (Only being partially facetious)
​​​​​​plus they do sound great with a Floyd.


If it still seems a bit dull, then I would file the saddles on the Floyd just enough to take the coating off..... Unless it's chrome, then consider replacing the saddles. I have found the specials to be ok most of the time.

If it was still lifeless after all that, put all the stock stuff back on it and sell that sucker off!

 

[Lucius Paisley]

I don't think I know anybody who uses ESP/LTD guitars for their "great passive pickups".

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't think I know anybody who uses ESP/LTD guitars for their "great passive pickups".

??

Plenty of ESP/LTD's have come witih the JB in the bridge for ages.

Now they put Nazgul, Pegasus, Custom 5, Black Winter in a lot of them. Like 1/3 of the signatuer models come with passives. They also use some BKP's and DiMarzios here and there.

I've never had any problem with using passive pickups in my LTD's, personally.

The old Gotoh or Maxon-made ESP LH-100 pickpus were essentially just well-regarded PAF-types.

I mean, yeah, you commonly see LTD's or ESP's with either active EMG's in the past or active Fishmans currently, but they've had a lot of well-regarded models with passives over the yers. They're marketing their guitars as mostly metal guitars. I'm not saying passives don't do metal, but it is undeniable that active pickups are well-regarded in metal, but not everyone playing metal wants actives.

 

[Top-L]

Every guitar is different. I don't have all the answers, but guitar construction (I believe) plays a larger part than the actual piece of wood.

I currently have a few mahogony floyd guitars. An M400 and a couple Ibanez Sabres. Granted there are many different kinds of mahogony, but there are trends...

The mahogony M400 has a deeper bass and a low mid growl that none of the Sabres or basswood RGs I've owned had. But its not as resonant in the upper mid frequencies.

The M400 is much heavier than the sabres by a couple pounds. I dislike that the sabres seem to be rolled off on the bottom end. (Can be heard amplified.) The lightweight construction of the sabres make them sound more like the basswood RGs I've owned. They are weird guitars, made with a small piece of lightweight "mahogony". Definitely made for lead guitar.

If I was going to down tune, I wouldn't even try with the sabres or basswood RG, but I feel that the M400 would do a credible job of supporting low tunings. It is just a more solid guitar and seems to have more lows. Plugged in, it is not lacking.

BTW, I have upgraded a few FRS to an OFR tone block.

The FRS tone block can have a tendency to sound "plinky". I have tested OFR and big brass blocks. The big brass block gives the tone more fundamentals and takes away too much presence imo. The sweet spot is the OFR block.

If you want a resonant floyd guitar check out those RG550s. They are basswood and have a pickguard. I believe the front control route and pickguard serves a bit like a sound hole and will make it feel alive in your hands.

Which is all to say, if you cant appreciate the M400 you should probably get something else.

 

[Securb]

I think the important thing to remember is that wood even from the same tree, can be very different. Drought, floods, disease, and a host of environmental elements have an influence on the density and appearance of a piece of wood. Two guitars cut from the same wood plank can look and sound very different. If the tree encounters any extreme environmental changes those differences can be very divergent.

 

[solspirit]

I think the important thing to remember is that wood even from the same tree, can be very different. Drought, floods, disease, and a host of environmental elements have an influence on the density and appearance of a piece of wood. Two guitars cut from the same wood plank can look and sound very different. If the tree encounters any extreme environmental changes those differences can be very divergent.

Wood is a fickle bitch.

 

[Top-L]

I think the important thing to remember is that wood even from the same tree, can be very different. Drought, floods, disease, and a host of environmental elements have an influence on the density and appearance of a piece of wood. Two guitars cut from the same wood plank can look and sound very different. If the tree encounters any extreme environmental changes those differences can be very divergent.

Thats very true, but I think guitar construction overrides that to a degree. There are so many choices they make in the build, things that affect the tone before the body wood is even considered. How many pieces is the neck? How is the neck constructed (quartersawn, multi laminate, etc.) How thick is the neck? What neck material (maple or mahog)? What fretboard material? What bridge is it using? How is the neck attached.

I think all of those things come before the body wood in determining the sonic signature. And of course, the body may not be a single piece (either glued together, figured/flame top, or veneer, etc) and be of various dimensions. And it could be routed differently (back or front rout.) And the finish also affects the tone.

Those design decisions together decide fundamentally how a guitar will sound.

 

[ehdwuld]

on a bolt on it may just be it aint seated in the pocket well
got too many shims
not enough shims

loose screw

any number of things

I remember Jerry having one like that years ago
he had shimmed it
I think Frank Falbo did the fretwork on it, as he told me

and yet it was just dead
lifeless not sustain plinky