Dean Professional Series

[Alex Semple]

Re: Dean Professional Series


Hello Everyone. The exact Dean OEM pickups shown in the photo taken at my desk were sent in by the OP to be rewound by the Custom Shop. They were not manufactured by nor are they to be associated in any way with Seymour Duncan. Starting with the labels affixed to the bottom plates, the model numbers, job order numbers, and bar codes do not match anything produced by us. Looking under the hood (and these are also not covers used by SD) as per Derek Duncan's direct communication with the OP, the '59' is wound with poly whereas an actual '59 is wound with darker plain enamel. Further study of these particular pickups revealed details in the 4-conductor cable and the size and style of pole pieces that are not consistent with any of our humbucker products.
For anyone interested, here is a thread regarding these exact model of Dean humbuckers.
https://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-28/1456288-
Due to the confusion surrounding the OP's experience with Seymour Duncan and Dean regarding the production origin of these pickups, Derek will honor the discounted rewind price. The OP can expect an email from him shortly. Thanks!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

View attachment 94730
Hello Everyone. The exact Dean OEM pickups shown in the photo taken at my desk were sent in by the OP to be rewound by the Custom Shop. They were not manufactured by nor are they to be associated in any way with Seymour Duncan. Starting with the labels affixed to the bottom plates, the model numbers, job order numbers, and bar codes do not match anything produced by us. Looking under the hood (and these are also not covers used by SD) as per Derek Duncan's direct communication with the OP, the '59' is wound with poly whereas an actual '59 is wound with darker plain enamel. Further study of these particular pickups revealed details in the 4-conductor cable and the size and style of pole pieces that are not consistent with any of our humbucker products.
For anyone interested, here is a thread regarding these exact model of Dean humbuckers.
https://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-28/1456288-
Due to the confusion surrounding the OP's experience with Seymour Duncan and Dean regarding the production origin of these pickups, Derek will honor the discounted rewind price. The OP can expect an email from him shortly. Thanks!

This is all true. Those are my pickups. I know they don't look like Duncans normally look, but I chalked it up to them being different because they were an order to spec by Dean. I figured that perhaps certain corners were cut for O.E.M. production runs (like using plain baseplates), and I figured the 50mm spacing was used via special request from Dean. And they have 59 and JB on the stickers, in what I assumed was some sort of O.E.M. code different from regular codes.

I am still trying to get Dean sorted out on this, as they apparently gave me false information, as did everyone and everything else on the Web that I had personally read about these guitars. That, after the bad experience leading up to my eventual Custom Shop order caused me to imagine, and vent, the worst prematurely. My apologies for being so cynical and quick to judge.

Derek and I exchanged messages, and I've told him I know he isn't wrong, and explained why I firmly believed what I believed when I believed it, including the whole bad customer service back story about these pickups. The pickup project is going ahead as planned. I haven't heard anything about not having to send the 40 extra bux, but if I get that offer, I'm going to insist that they take the money (which I had already authorized them to charge, in my second e-mail to them after they told me they weren't Duncans). If they aren't Duncans, they aren't Duncans, plainly and simply. It isn't Duncan's fault that Dean used Duncan trademarks, and then told me twice that the guitar came with Duncan pickups.

Really, the only reason I bumped this thread was to get BATMAN's input. One comment led to another, my annoyance grew and grew, and I prematurely posted some dark thoughts about Duncan as I stewed about this throughout the day, and got more messages from the Custom Shop and from Dean. I apologize again, and take them back as much as can be done. I am going to leave them up unedited, though, so that the whole story stands as it was originally posted.

Thank you to Derek for handling the problem professionally, and thank you Alex for contributing this good info to the thread here.

As for Dean...really? Using '59 and JB on non-Duncan pickups?

 

[Mincer]

Re: Dean Professional Series

The Dean factory is 1/2 hour away from me. I am going there in 3 weeks. Should I rough someone up?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

The Dean factory is 1/2 hour away from me. I am going there in 3 weeks. Should I rough someone up?

Ask Derek! Ha!

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Happy Birthday :fest6:

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Thanks, Chris.

Well, the plot thickens...or does it thin? After seeing pix of the pickups, Dean has changed their statement from, "Seymour 59's and JB's were standard in a lot of our USA'S, including that model" to, "This was the only US line that did not come with the Seymours at the time." Nice to know that now!

He says they are Korean made models based on the JB and '59, but not exactly the same.

 

[BTMN]

Re: Dean Professional Series

That is news to me also. I will have to pull mine and look at them. I have never had a reason to change them.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

That is news to me also. I will have to pull mine and look at them. I have never had a reason to change them.

They're perfectly fine pickups for someone who wants that classic hot-rodded humbucker sound. For my playing (hard) and my amps (very low headroom), that doesn't work for me. I need something way lower in output. They are being rewound into a Seth neck for the bridge position, and an underwound Seth neck for the neck position.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Well, I got these today. Sadly, there are multiple problems with them. I have contacted the Custom Shop, and we'll see what they say. No complaints on their response so far; I have to give them a chance to respond. Just some problems with the work.

1) I specified to wind a Seth Lover neck for the bridge position, and that one appears to be close enough (7.5K, when Duncan spec is 7.4K). However, the neck pickup was underwound not even 3 percent in wire length from published Duncan specs, to 7.2K. I specified a neck pickup wound to balance with the approximately 10 percent underwound bridge pickup. I think that, theoretically, 7.2K is too close to the bridge pickup for what I specified. Obviously there is more to balancing a pickup than the number of windings and DCR, but considering that a stock Seth Neck is 10 percent under the Seth bridge, a difference of about 2.5 percent under on my neck pickup sounds theoretically inadequate. When I initially inquired about this work, I was told they felt comfortable going in the 6's in terms of KOhms on a Seth neck, so they've obviously tried it before, and it shouldn't have been a technical issue to reduce the windings more than was done.

2) The bridge pickup cover is installed quite noticeably crooked. You can also see through the holes in the baseplate: the baseplate and the slug poles are not sandwiched evenly across the length of the pickup. So the whole sandwich of pickup parts is tweaked a bit; it's not just a crooked cover.

3) There are coil lead wires (and the tape that holds them together) sticking out under the cover on the side of the bridge pickup. This is probably what caused the cover to be installed incorrectly, and the "pickup sandwich" to lean throughout.

4) The spacers were supposed to be replaced with wood spacers. With the problems so far, I will be opening up one of the pickups to make sure this was done (it needs to be opened to be rewound anyhow). I am hoping to find wood spacers in there. At this point, I am forcing myself to have some hope that I will find wood ones in there.

5) The pole pieces were supposed to be replaced with Duncan ones. Given the other problems so far, I would like confirmation that this was actually done...and that probably means doing it again, even if it was already done...just to make damned sure that it was done, without a doubt.

6) The neck pickup was damaged in the shop. One of the mounting ears has been warped. The photo above, posted by Alex Semple, shows the ear unbent on a table in the Custom Shop.

7) My original parts were not returned (the magnets, and if they replaced the pole pieces and original spacers, those either).

On some positive notes, it does appear that they replaced the pickup leads, as they said they would. And at least the bridge pickup doesn't need to be rewound. And they aren't potted, so pulling some windings off the neck pickup should be relatively easy.

I tried hitting the "return" button on my order page on the Custom Shop site, but all I got was a blank white screen, over and over, so I contacted them via Website form instead. Here's hoping their reply is quick.

So, the Dean continues to sit, unplayed. I was hoping to get it up and running this weekend.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Well, something is afoot at the Circle K!

This is a really intriguing situation. Options include:

1. Duncan lying
2. Dean lying
3. Both lying
4. Both correct! How is this you ask? Well, when it comes to OEM stuff...a JB is a JB. What makes it a JB is wire gauge, winds (type/amount) , and magnet. There could be any number of other "features" that one might expect (Bobbin material, dimension +/-, and even the stamped plate. I suspect each company has records as to where/what was ordered from who. But those could have easily been off-shored by Duncan, to 59/JB critical specs. Or they could have been bought by Dean by some whole-sales who was *ahem* less than honest. Or both!

Consider that Dean bought them from some wholesaler, who was actually buying from a shop in China, who was fairly liberal in there "interpretation of the specs.

You get Dean saying "We bought Duncan." You get Duncan saying "We didn't make those." And to be honest - the PITA of looking it up for certain is worth way more than $40. However, if Dean said Duncans and they didn't get them from Duncan, and knew it, we have a major oopsee, of the Legal$$$$ kind. But I really doubt that Duncan would be unaware of any brand advertising their pickups that didn't have it. There are not "thousands" or even hundreds or dozens of companies that use them."

Very intriguing issue!

 

[Aceman]

Re: Dean Professional Series

That is news to me also. I will have to pull mine and look at them. I have never had a reason to change them.

Can't wait to see.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

It is already settled that these are not Duncan pickups. Dean was either mistaken or lying when they told me so. At any rate, we're past that issue. Derek and I were able to figure it out, and once it was settled, I told him to take the $40. The money was never really the issue anyhow. The problem now is quite a few details with the work that was performed in the end. Very unfortunate, especially after this already long and frustrating process.

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Dean Professional Series

I think it's pretty awesome and amazing that you guys are passionate and feel opposite about something I find mostly sort of egregious

- it's what make this crazy world worth hanging out in.

I watched some videos of Aceman playing his new Dean just to glean some joy of a dude jazzed by his obsession.

Yall keep rocking your wild ass Deans.... maybe one day I'll come around to the secret of the Dean.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Dean Professional Series

I think it's pretty awesome and amazing that you guys are passionate and feel opposite about something I find mostly sort of egregious

- it's what make this crazy world worth hanging out in.

I watched some videos of Aceman playing his new Dean just to glean some joy of a dude jazzed by his obsession.

Yall keep rocking your wild ass Deans.... maybe one day I'll come around to the secret of the Dean.

What vids???

But I'd really like to know if BTMN has the same pups and what Dean says they are????

Jazzed by what obsession?

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Dean Professional Series

What vids???

You posted you playing that Dean you bought at the Dean weekend.

I'd really like to know if BTMN has the same pups and what Dean says they are????

Could you clarify? Whats BTMN -I don't understand this comment exactly.

by what obsession?

Your guitar obsession, anyone's really -just dig when people make an impulse guitar buy and are stoked to play it -no matter if it's a guitar I don't care -make sense?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

What vids???

But I'd really like to know if BTMN has the same pups and what Dean says they are????

Jazzed by what obsession?

I would hope that BATMAN wouldn't bother to pull his pickups over this. There's no reason to believe that he and I don't have the same ones, and Dean has already corrected themselves on the matter.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Bridge Pickup

Crooked cover:





...due to these coil leads:





...which I suspect might be wedged between the baseplate and bobbin/s as well, causing this difference in slug-to-baseplate clearance one one side vs. the other:





Neck Pickup

Bent mounting ear:





The other one looks a bit weird too, though it might have already been that way:



Regardless, the ears should have been straightened before leaving the shop.

Box

7.2K is 4 percent under-wound from the bridge pickup, while a stock Seth Neck is more than 10 percent under-wound from the bridge. I wanted something in the area of 6.75K, which the Custom Shop told me they could do when I initially inquired about these pickups.



I haven't checked for the wood spacers or Duncan pole pieces yet, but I will. Any help anyone can provide with IDing real Duncan pole pieces? They were explicit about the fact that the stock pole pieces were clearly not Duncan parts, so it must be a fairly clear difference (bold added):

View attachment 94730
Hello Everyone. The exact Dean OEM pickups shown in the photo taken at my desk were sent in by the OP to be rewound by the Custom Shop. They were not manufactured by nor are they to be associated in any way with Seymour Duncan. Starting with the labels affixed to the bottom plates, the model numbers, job order numbers, and bar codes do not match anything produced by us. Looking under the hood (and these are also not covers used by SD) as per Derek Duncan's direct communication with the OP, the '59' is wound with poly whereas an actual '59 is wound with darker plain enamel. Further study of these particular pickups revealed details in the 4-conductor cable and the size and style of pole pieces that are not consistent with any of our humbucker products.
For anyone interested, here is a thread regarding these exact model of Dean humbuckers.
https://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-28/1456288-
Due to the confusion surrounding the OP's experience with Seymour Duncan and Dean regarding the production origin of these pickups, Derek will honor the discounted rewind price. The OP can expect an email from him shortly. Thanks!

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Yikes, that is just embarrassing.

I hope they get you sorted out.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Wow - that is tragic. Custom hop fail!!!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Dean Professional Series

Well, it doesn't look like the normal work coming out of the Custom Shop, so I am sorry this process has not gone smoothly. I hesitate to offer an opinion on this situation as I know nothing about this other than what was posted here. I hope they get back to you and resolve this issue for you. Please let us know how this turns out. Hopefully you can call them up and send them these pictures.