Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

[Vincent]

Hi guys,

I'm afraid I'm going to have to tap this great forum resource again.

I use a 5150 head into a 4x12cab and currently I am using a Digitech Studio100 for effects such as reverb and delay. Problem is, the Studio 100 adds 'extra volume' as it goes through the effects loop and hence, I can barely turn up the head past 1.5 as it is insanely loud due to this extra volume.

The Studio 100 is not very good to start off with and I am looking for a decent effects unit, with patches that can be changed 'on the fly' without any dropouts. I heard a lot about the Boss VF-1. Has anyone had experience with this unit?

I also want to hear from people who use effects through an amp's effects loop. What sort of setup do you use?

My price range: about USD$350 or so (kinda a bit over budget but not over the top)

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

I'm using a 5150 head also and have been looking for a multi FX unit that would work in the FX Loop..... i'd love to find one of those older Marshall 1 inch rack space FX units that they used to sell as part of the JMP1 preamp series.... Almost all new multi FX units are Modeling units and meant to replace amps....

At a garage sale last summer i bought an old 1989-ish era Roland GP8 for $20 Canadian.... Very cool find for $20!!!! Most Toronto area stores sell them for $200 when they have them in. I'm told they are basicly a bunch of Boss units in there with a digital control system.. So they are analog FX's! The Distortion sounds exactly like a DS1..... Anywyas i do need to send it in for repair as the EQ is distorting when i boost the lows.. Other then that it works great. I imagine that these older Analog multiFX units maybe what i need for adding to my tube amps! I could set it up in the FX loop and turn off all the comp, and distortion and in theory should work like boss units but controlled by midi..... i wonder if it would work....

WhoFan

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

You must adjust the overall volume on the unit, most all 19" unit can do that, otherwise they are not very useable.
It probally has some preset where you can adjust the input and output, set both to zero db and go from there.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

You must adjust the overall volume on the unit, most all 19" unit can do that, otherwise they are not very useable.
It probally has some preset where you can adjust the input and output, set both to zero db and go from there.

Thanks for the tips. I really should sit down and try out this GP 8 in a lot more amps and different hook ups..... I've heard some session guys on other sites say they were amazing for tone... The little second delay between patches on these old units are there down fall i guess. I'm keeping my eyes open for older multifx units that are analog...... any i can get for cheap that is.

I'd love to see a multifx unit that is designed for tube amps but have IN's and Out's so the different fx's can be placed before the amp and in the FX Loop... I'd like to see Wah, Comp, OD and Distortion be able to be placed in the front end of an amp... Then have a second part with the chorus and Delay fx's of the Multi FX in the amps FX loop and have it all digitally controlled. That would be something!

WhoFan

 

[Mincer]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

the VF-1 is a super deep box, with lots of options, and if you are into the whole programming thing (I am), you will dig the cool reverse pitch shifted reverbs, multi-tap delays, and swirly sounds this thing has..

 

[Vincent]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

Can't do it, I've set the output volume of the Digitech S100 as low as I possibly can, but there is still a very noticable gain in volume after disengaging the bypass switch on the unit.

Do any of you use pedals / individual effects through the 5150's fx loop?

I heard that the g-force is pretty good in fx loops, but people have said that they have the same problem as me when used in the 5150's effects loop.

Can't live without at least reverb, I don't know what I am going to do...

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

How about the input??
Those things have it both ways

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

You will probably have to set the output of the FX unit to -6dB.
The Digitech Studio 200 has a manual knob for output. There must be something similar (hardware or software) for the 100.

 

[Warheart]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

the 5150 effects loop is weird. they didn't think to include an adjustable level for send or return, and the problem is, the effects loop send is putting out a very weak signal, and the return is normal, so it doesn't work using effects at lower volumes. check out these specs from the manual:
Effects send:
Load Impedence 47k ohms or greater
nominal output: - 10 dBV, 300 mV RMS

Effects return:
Impedence: Very high Z, 470 k ohms
Designed level : -10dBV, 300 mV RMS

now, in my experience, what you have to do, is crank the post gain up to 5, then use a volume control as the last thing in your loop, and that should put the volume back around normal, but the effects loop send will be getting all the power it needs. i don't know why it was designed this way, but i think it may have been due to the fact that VH was gonna crank it anyways so they may have cut some corners. I personally use this for a Hush "The Pedal" noise reduction. i can't actually use the pedal at bedroom levels in the effects loop, or it will completely destroy my tone, so i put my post gain on 5, effects send --> in hush pedal, ---> volume control ---> effects return, and then you use the volume control as your master volume, so you can play at bedroom levels. in your case, try using the digitech where i'm using my hush pedal, and see if theres any difference.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

Do any of you use pedals / individual effects through the 5150's fx loop?

Can't live without at least reverb, I don't know what I am going to do...

Does the 5150 combo have reverb? I own the original 5150 head and cab only... In the FX loop i normally run a few Boss or simular pedals. A Flanger and a Delay...... I plug them in and leave them on top of my rig or on the floor in front so i can choose which one with my foot.... Mostly i leave them on top of my amp and turn them on/off by hand before we start a song and use the amps foot switch to turn the loop on.... I don't use the loop much so i'm not switching things on and off all night....

I wonder what using one of those Fender tube Reverb units would be like with a 5150.... the ones that came out in the 60's i think have been reissued.

I have to say that the 5150 does what i want even with out FX's.... Being a fan of The Who it is hard to get Townshends Live At Leeds tones... The 5150 does a good job at getting close. Pete's Hiwatts were custom units not your normall hiwatt 100's..... Hiwatt in the UK has issued the Townshend signature model and The Wholigans guitarist bought one. The Wholigans are a Who tribute act out of Toronto/Florida-some members travel far to play! Those Signature Hiwatts are a lot of money! But they have that sound! For me on a tighter budget the 5150 is close enough....

WhoFan

 

[Vincent]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

The combo apparently does have an inbuilt reverb.

Thanks Warheart for your suggestion. Will certainly have to invest in a good Volume pedal.

Question Warheart: What do you mean when you imply that 'it doesn't work for effects at low volumes'. But then later on you say 'VH was going to crank it anyway?'...

Anyone else have experience with other reverb / multifx units? Lexicon? TC Electronic? I'm desperate for suggestions.

Thanks

 

[RCM78]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

I'd love to see a multifx unit that is designed for tube amps but have IN's and Out's so the different fx's can be placed before the amp and in the FX Loop... I'd like to see Wah, Comp, OD and Distortion be able to be placed in the front end of an amp... Then have a second part with the chorus and Delay fx's of the Multi FX in the amps FX loop and have it all digitally controlled. That would be something!

WhoFan

This can be done with the Boss GT6 and most likely the Boss GT8. You run the amp in the loop of the effect's processor and can place certain effect's in front of the amp and some after...

 

[RCM78]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

The combo apparently does have an inbuilt reverb.

Question Warheart: What do you mean when you imply that 'it doesn't work for effects at low volumes'. But then later on you say 'VH was going to crank it anyway?'...
Thanks

Like warheart said. The 5150 loop is weird. You need a 10db boost to get it to work at low volume. This amp was designed for Ed the way he wanted it. Rackmount effect's will work if the post gain is cranked, but pedals are a pain in the ass...

The Boss ME50 should work in front of the amp just fine...

 

[WhoFan]

Re: Decent multifx unit for 5150 head HELP!!

Would a buffer work in the 5150's FX loop to correct the low volume return? I always found it strange that Ed's 90's rigs had a Wah, and Boss OD in the FX loop of his 5150 rigs. In interviews Ed has said the Wah is in the loop not in front of the amp. Must be a special wah.....

Someone once told me that the Boss OD on Ed's Pedalboard was used with the phase fx's to boost it's signal....... Ed's use of the Phase 90 always did sound more powerful and louder then any i have tried... makes sense but does anyone know if this is true?

WhoFan