Mmmmmmmm......
New member
Will changing the tubes and speaker in my fender deluxe reverb eliminate fizziness and lack of definition while running through my high gain pedal, or did i just buy the wrong amp for what im looking for?
Deluxe reverb
- Thread starter Mmmmmmmm......
- Start date
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Deluxe reverb
Put in a nice set reissue Tung osl 6V6's and some nice warm pre amp tubes..most guys like JJ's, I hate them myself but they are kind of warm...if it were mine I'd go EH 12AX7's and EH12AT7's...
Clip the bright cap...
Drop in a G12H30 and run it hard for about 50 hours before you deicde on anything else...
With those changes and a broken in speaker you'll be amazed at how warm and not fizzy that amp can be!
Put in a nice set reissue Tung osl 6V6's and some nice warm pre amp tubes..most guys like JJ's, I hate them myself but they are kind of warm...if it were mine I'd go EH 12AX7's and EH12AT7's...
Clip the bright cap...
Drop in a G12H30 and run it hard for about 50 hours before you deicde on anything else...
With those changes and a broken in speaker you'll be amazed at how warm and not fizzy that amp can be!
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Mmmmmmmm......
New member
Re: Deluxe reverb
Is it worth the money to change the 5ar4 and the 2 12at7's as well?
Is it worth the money to change the 5ar4 and the 2 12at7's as well?
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Deluxe reverb
Really if it were me I'd start with just the bright cap and a new speaker...if you want to keep going after that change the 12AX7's that are the front end of each channel...after that if you want more the rest of the preamp tubes and the last step would be the power tubes...
Really if it were me I'd start with just the bright cap and a new speaker...if you want to keep going after that change the 12AX7's that are the front end of each channel...after that if you want more the rest of the preamp tubes and the last step would be the power tubes...
drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: Deluxe reverb
also factory bias's are a little cold so adjusting that will warm things up a bit. IMO the bias contributes to the tone as much as the power tubes themselves, probably more.
also factory bias's are a little cold so adjusting that will warm things up a bit. IMO the bias contributes to the tone as much as the power tubes themselves, probably more.
Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
glassman
Electron Herder
Re: Deluxe reverb
If you want more definition under overdrive conditions, you are going to have to decrease the plate current in the power tubes considerably...15 to 18mA should do the trick. It will give you a touch less bass, more headroom and an overall tighter feel. It will also lose some warmth...this may be an acceptable trade off; you will have to see for yourself to be certain.
To reduce the fizziness under overdrive conditions, reduce the gain of the preamp by using a 12AY7 in V2 (if you use the vibrato channel) or V1 (if you use the normal channel). You can try a 12AT7 (like stealing the one from V3, which will disable the reverb) to see if it tightens the amp up enough though the 12AT7 will have less midrange compared to a 12AY7 (or the 12AX7 that was in there). The 12AY7 will make the amp feel punchier too.
If you want more definition under overdrive conditions, you are going to have to decrease the plate current in the power tubes considerably...15 to 18mA should do the trick. It will give you a touch less bass, more headroom and an overall tighter feel. It will also lose some warmth...this may be an acceptable trade off; you will have to see for yourself to be certain.
To reduce the fizziness under overdrive conditions, reduce the gain of the preamp by using a 12AY7 in V2 (if you use the vibrato channel) or V1 (if you use the normal channel). You can try a 12AT7 (like stealing the one from V3, which will disable the reverb) to see if it tightens the amp up enough though the 12AT7 will have less midrange compared to a 12AY7 (or the 12AX7 that was in there). The 12AY7 will make the amp feel punchier too.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Deluxe reverb
are you sure that the fizziness and lack of definition is not caused by your high gain pedal?
I have a bunch of overdrive pedals, stock, modded and boutique which i have played thru my 1x12 princeton. The higher the gain, the worse they sound. The amp is fabulous - it just shows up the deficiencies of the pedals. If a pedal has an annoying high end, the amp will amplify that. Perhaps you are dealing with the same thing.
Part of the issue is most likely wha the amp is designed for. A really big and rich sounding clean sound requires a circuit that accentuates both bass and treble frequencies (ala fender style tone stacks). Jim Marshall worked out long ago that for a great overdriven sound, you need to trim off a lot of the bass before the preamp, and then tame the high end after it. This means that in a marshall type circuit, you get less bass and a lower high end. You get a great crunch sound but the clean sounds are often less inspiring. The reverse is true for the classic fender type amplifier.
Putting a high gain pedal before a fender amp, chances are you will need to dial out most of your bass, and most of your treble - to compensate for the eq of most high gain pedals. Some high gain pedals have a circuit to introduce more bass after the clipping stage to fatten things up again -which you would need to reduce also. The other issue is of course the nature of the distortion itself. Clipping diodes rather than tubes tends to create a certain spike in the upper end that no matter what you do with the eq just sort of sits there unmoving, regardless of the note you are playing. This spike is what gives you "cut" but the problem is (unlike an overdriven tube) the frequency does not shift the way harmonic overtones do. An overdriving tube will reproduce the upper harmonic freqencies much more naturally and they will follow each note rather than just sitting in one spot in the spectrum. This is often the cause of the fizziness that people dont like in pedal circuits. A really nice amp like a deluxe will just allow you to hear all this rather than masking it due to the richness of its upper end.
Deluxe Revrbs are one of the sweetest sounding and versatile amps out there - but no amps can do all sounds for all people. If high gain sounds is what you use then perhaps a marshall or a mesa may be more to your tatste.
A really tasty high gain sound is most commonly found in a really tasty high gain amp. Its very difficult to try and transform a fender amp into a marshall just by using a pedal.
Having said all that, speaker changes can often tailor your tone to fit what you are after more, but (correct me if im wrong) the deluxe reverb comes with a Jensen c12K? thats a pretty nice speaker and well suited to the classic tone the amp produces.
As far as tubes go - firstly getting the bias set correctly can fix all manner of ills, but assuming you have it right then here are a few options. jj 6v6s are great in the power section because they hold together really well if you dial in a bit of bass. My fave preamp tubes for 6v6 based fenders are tung sols, but Eh are good also for a bit more mid snarl. JJs are very reliable and competent but do lack a certain character - they are kind of big and clean, but less interesting in the high end than tungsols. Nonetheless - there is nothing really wrong with the stock tubes (GT/sovteks) and changing preamp tubes will not give you a miracle cure.
So here is my recommendation:
1. Check The Bias
2. If things are markedly different and you are happy, but want to experiment then consider a speaker swap (perhaps a cannabis rex)
3. If you are really stoked with those changes, then new tubes will be icing on the cake.
4. If things dont work out for you after rebiasing - then start looking around for an amp better suited to high gain (eg marshall dsl)
good luck!
are you sure that the fizziness and lack of definition is not caused by your high gain pedal?
I have a bunch of overdrive pedals, stock, modded and boutique which i have played thru my 1x12 princeton. The higher the gain, the worse they sound. The amp is fabulous - it just shows up the deficiencies of the pedals. If a pedal has an annoying high end, the amp will amplify that. Perhaps you are dealing with the same thing.
Part of the issue is most likely wha the amp is designed for. A really big and rich sounding clean sound requires a circuit that accentuates both bass and treble frequencies (ala fender style tone stacks). Jim Marshall worked out long ago that for a great overdriven sound, you need to trim off a lot of the bass before the preamp, and then tame the high end after it. This means that in a marshall type circuit, you get less bass and a lower high end. You get a great crunch sound but the clean sounds are often less inspiring. The reverse is true for the classic fender type amplifier.
Putting a high gain pedal before a fender amp, chances are you will need to dial out most of your bass, and most of your treble - to compensate for the eq of most high gain pedals. Some high gain pedals have a circuit to introduce more bass after the clipping stage to fatten things up again -which you would need to reduce also. The other issue is of course the nature of the distortion itself. Clipping diodes rather than tubes tends to create a certain spike in the upper end that no matter what you do with the eq just sort of sits there unmoving, regardless of the note you are playing. This spike is what gives you "cut" but the problem is (unlike an overdriven tube) the frequency does not shift the way harmonic overtones do. An overdriving tube will reproduce the upper harmonic freqencies much more naturally and they will follow each note rather than just sitting in one spot in the spectrum. This is often the cause of the fizziness that people dont like in pedal circuits. A really nice amp like a deluxe will just allow you to hear all this rather than masking it due to the richness of its upper end.
Deluxe Revrbs are one of the sweetest sounding and versatile amps out there - but no amps can do all sounds for all people. If high gain sounds is what you use then perhaps a marshall or a mesa may be more to your tatste.
A really tasty high gain sound is most commonly found in a really tasty high gain amp. Its very difficult to try and transform a fender amp into a marshall just by using a pedal.
Having said all that, speaker changes can often tailor your tone to fit what you are after more, but (correct me if im wrong) the deluxe reverb comes with a Jensen c12K? thats a pretty nice speaker and well suited to the classic tone the amp produces.
As far as tubes go - firstly getting the bias set correctly can fix all manner of ills, but assuming you have it right then here are a few options. jj 6v6s are great in the power section because they hold together really well if you dial in a bit of bass. My fave preamp tubes for 6v6 based fenders are tung sols, but Eh are good also for a bit more mid snarl. JJs are very reliable and competent but do lack a certain character - they are kind of big and clean, but less interesting in the high end than tungsols. Nonetheless - there is nothing really wrong with the stock tubes (GT/sovteks) and changing preamp tubes will not give you a miracle cure.
So here is my recommendation:
1. Check The Bias
2. If things are markedly different and you are happy, but want to experiment then consider a speaker swap (perhaps a cannabis rex)
3. If you are really stoked with those changes, then new tubes will be icing on the cake.
4. If things dont work out for you after rebiasing - then start looking around for an amp better suited to high gain (eg marshall dsl)
good luck!
Last edited:
Mmmmmmmm......
New member
Re: Deluxe reverb
Wow! Thanks for all the help. Ill hold off on buying new tubes and a speaker untill i get it rebiased and am happy with the sound. If not there may soon be a brand new deluxe reverb on the trading post.
Wow! Thanks for all the help. Ill hold off on buying new tubes and a speaker untill i get it rebiased and am happy with the sound. If not there may soon be a brand new deluxe reverb on the trading post.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Deluxe reverb
Trust me...clip the bright cap FIRST then order a G12H30 and go ahead and get it breaking in good!
Trust me...clip the bright cap FIRST then order a G12H30 and go ahead and get it breaking in good!
Re: Deluxe reverb
I am not sure I have ever seen a thread that said Deluxe Reverb and High Gain. Seems to me like you have the wrong amp maybe.....
I keep reading about clipping the "bright cap". That cap is only on the Trem Channel. Are you pushing a "High Gain" pedal through the Reverb by any chance? Plus, the bright cap really falls off as the volume goes up.
Maybe it is just me, but I am reading a lot of things that do not add up very well.
Seems like if you are set on using that amp for high gain, you should follow the advice laid out by Jerry Glass (sp?). Boogies tend to have a rather cold bias for the very reasons he has pointed out.
Good Luck
I am not sure I have ever seen a thread that said Deluxe Reverb and High Gain. Seems to me like you have the wrong amp maybe.....
I keep reading about clipping the "bright cap". That cap is only on the Trem Channel. Are you pushing a "High Gain" pedal through the Reverb by any chance? Plus, the bright cap really falls off as the volume goes up.
Maybe it is just me, but I am reading a lot of things that do not add up very well.
Seems like if you are set on using that amp for high gain, you should follow the advice laid out by Jerry Glass (sp?). Boogies tend to have a rather cold bias for the very reasons he has pointed out.
Good Luck