Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Biu said:
I wouldn't mind either way, because it sounds great. Anybody know?

I have the schematics for the 5150,SLO 100,and the Dual Rec Boogies and the preamps are virtually identical....Coincedence? Seems Boogie and Peavey both ripped Soldano off....

John
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Peterku said:
Everyone's copying each other, so that's where the importance of quality components kicks in? That's why Soldano, Diezel, VHT etc. are still a class above Fender, Marshall, Mesa and the rest, concerning sound quality?

Very subjective statement and cause for much debate? When it all comes down to it these days,,Everything is a copy of either Fender,Marshall or Vox...A Marshall was originally a fender 59 Bassman...A Fender is a copy of very early Western Electric circuits for tube amps....You could say it's amps evolving and modders inflecting their own ideas into their circuits...

Then it's Class A or AB circuits..

John
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Peterku said:
Everyone's copying each other, so that's where the importance of quality components kicks in? That's why Soldano, Diezel, VHT etc. are still a class above Fender, Marshall, Mesa and the rest, concerning sound quality?

Sound quality is subjective. Soldano, Diezel, VHT, and Mesa are all using top grade parts, which is why they're all so expensive. But, all those amps produce similar tones....the main difference is in their feel. Mesa is by far the loosest feeling, and ENGL is the tightest (except for the VHT Ultra Lead). Everyone else falls in the middle.

Fender doesn't really do high gain, so they really don't fit in this, and Marshall should've stuck to medium gain.
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

screamingdaisy said:
Sound quality is subjective. Soldano, Diezel, VHT, and Mesa are all using top grade parts, which is why they're all so expensive. But, all those amps produce similar tones....the main difference is in their feel. Mesa is by far the loosest feeling, and ENGL is the tightest (except for the VHT Ultra Lead). Everyone else falls in the middle.

Fender doesn't really do high gain, so they really don't fit in this, and Marshall should've stuck to medium gain.

Good points....
My thoughts are based on vintage Marshall,fender,and Vox amps...That's the stuff I grew up with...The Marshall DSL amps I Like also...fender is all about nice clean for the most part,though the Prosonic wasn't too bad and also the Tonemaster head rocks...

John
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Were VOX amps just a british answer to Fenders?
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

do the blackface RI's have decent quality parts on them, and which parts' quality levels affect tone the most? Is it the transformer, capacitor quality, tubes etc...
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

;) Well some of the customshops are quite nice, but most are run of the mill stuff.
The Twins are quite nice, the Concert is also a nice combo.
 
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Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

EVH wouldn't know a cathode from an anode, I'm making a broad statement here about all guitarists here as most don't have a degree in electrical engineering (nor do I!). Leo Fender was a great designer of tube amps because at the time it was a new science and he read up various widely available papers that were freely available. This doesn't happen now due to "rolling patents" and "commercially sensitive documents".
What does this mean? There is nothing new under the sun, valves have been around for more years than me and come to think of it so have transistors, it's just how you put them together.
So who really cares if party A uses party B's preamp design, "Does a THD Flexi sound like a Marshall Plexi?" Well yes but can you buy a Plexi brand new?
And a final thought didn't Peavey build the the 5150 as I can't really see EVH sitting down at a work bench soldering iron at the ready(?)
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

fender doesn't do hi-gain?

well, in a sense, no

but now that i have my bassman, well, this thing has enough bottom to handle metal, and good enough cleans to take any pedal you throw at it. Cleans comparable to a twin? No, but this is a ROCK amp, why else would marshall steal it?

Fender is about versatility, bottom line. No their stock stuff usually can't handle everything, but it's made in such a way that YOU decide what it can handle

beautiful, if you think about it
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Rid said:
That came from an old GE design that Leo used...well if I remember correctly.
lol
'

And myth turns to legend, b/c I heard it was an RCA copy.

Luke
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Rid said:
Well it was some old design...hehe tubeamps are dinosaurs;)

They are Western Electric designs from old schematics....

John
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

drew_half_empty said:
fender doesn't do hi-gain?

well, in a sense, no

but now that i have my bassman, well, this thing has enough bottom to handle metal, and good enough cleans to take any pedal you throw at it. Cleans comparable to a twin? No, but this is a ROCK amp, why else would marshall steal it?

Fender is about versatility, bottom line. No their stock stuff usually can't handle everything, but it's made in such a way that YOU decide what it can handle

beautiful, if you think about it

The circuit in yours isn't what marshall used. They used the circuit from a much older version that was very different.
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

STRATDELUXER97 said:
I have the schematics for the 5150,SLO 100,and the Dual Rec Boogies and the preamps are virtually identical....Coincedence? Seems Boogie and Peavey both ripped Soldano off....

John

Seems to me that Randall @ Boogie did the high gain Princeton for Carlos long before Soldano appeared. Don't know Soldano history that well but I don't recall hearing references of him in the 70's.

Its a more or less pointless discussion. There are generally a very limited number of ways to do things with a tube circuit. Even if they never new about each other simlar designs were bound to be created to achieve similar results.
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

TheArchitect said:
Seems to me that Randall @ Boogie did the high gain Princeton for Carlos long before Soldano appeared. Don't know Soldano history that well but I don't recall hearing references of him in the 70's.

Its a more or less pointless discussion. There are generally a very limited number of ways to do things with a tube circuit. Even if they never new about each other simlar designs were bound to be created to achieve similar results.

Randall's original "high gain" amps were basically adding "cascaded" gain stages to the fender Princeton circuit....We're talking about the Dual Rectifier,5150,and Soldano SLO 100 circuits which are not at all like the Boogie/Fender Mark 1 series from the early 70s(Actually prior to the MK1 series)....Apples and Oranges...

John
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Didn’t Soldano sue Peavy over the preamp design? I’ve played the SLO 100, 5150 and Dual Rectifiers and I always felt that the Peavy and Boogie were heavily “influenced” by the Soldano. Personally I prefer the Soldano myself.

Cheers,

CJ
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

Since we're talking about the 5150, MF just lowered the prices. The 5150 combo is now $779 and the head is $749. Tempted to get the combo.
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

drew_half_empty said:
fender doesn't do hi-gain?

well, in a sense, no

but now that i have my bassman, well, this thing has enough bottom to handle metal, and good enough cleans to take any pedal you throw at it. Cleans comparable to a twin? No, but this is a ROCK amp, why else would marshall steal it?

Fender is about versatility, bottom line. No their stock stuff usually can't handle everything, but it's made in such a way that YOU decide what it can handle

beautiful, if you think about it

Remember, isn't yours modded by J. Seal? Any amp can play anything these days anyway, if it has enough headroom you can throw pedals at it and play metal, then switch to jazz. I think we're talking more about the characteristic sounds of amps and how similar they are components wise, yet they each have distinguishable tone, not about how amps could sound like anything. :smoker:

But a good point nonetheless. A solid fender can cop it's grandson's sounds so to speak. I guess we have GE to thank for starting the fire! :saeek:
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

The circuit Leo used was from WE, AKA Western Electric which was a division of Bell Telephone.

Brent
 
Re: Did EVH really steal Soldano circuitry for the 5150?

....just my lowly .02 on this subject

Although it's getting harder and harder these days to be truly "innovative", it is not impossible.....(if you doubt that, come visit me!), there have actually been quite a few design's that almost nobody has even bothered to "explore". Most of these are assumed to be variations of "other designs, but there are some notable exceptions:

1. Early Orange amps.... one of the very few Class AB amps that have no phase inverter (in a conventional sense), rather a single gain stage with the cathode driving one pair of output tubes, while the plate drives the other pair.
...why does this work?.......the ouput from the cathode is 180% out of phase from the plate out.

This is true for all triodes and the reason for the "cathode follower" circuit found in most amps. Conventional plate driven circuits when pushed will only "distort" the positive aspect of the waveform, leaving the negative portion virtually intact, until it too reaches it's limit's. But by this time, although the signal is "distorted", it is so assymetrical that is sounds horrible! The cathode follower is specifically designed to reverse the phase and insure "equal" response, most notably when "pushed" or distorted. (Both pos. and neg. will "square" at a much more equal rate.) This does however, come at the expense of the actual voltage out of the circuit.... cathode drive is only 1/10 the levels achieved with plate driven.

There is a way to actually "balance" 4 consecutive plate driven stages where equal OD is achieved, and it works quite well... It has never been commercially made and the only design that uses it is .........mine! (so much for the "no new ideas" theory!)

anyway....

#2.... The great Magnatone "pitch shifting" vibrato..... Few know about this, but it's old, revered but never even attempted to be duplicated.....no clue as to why. The theory was simple, by cancelling out the signal at the PI via "phase inversion" a very simple level increase/decrease was achieved. But it also had the "side effect" of actually pitch shifting the signal, or "chorusing" it. My guess would be that in the late '60s, this was considered as a "hindrance" rather than an attribute. (of course, "distortion" from an amp was in it's early stages too!)....worth checking into..

#3.. my personal favorite... Marshall JCM800 ch. switching amps....there is no better example of "unconventional" thinking done in history than these!....
Somebody, somewhere finally figured out that "distortion" was very simply the squaring of the guitar signal. The more uniform it was, the better and there is nothing to achieve this more efficiently than the lowly regarded "diode". Although the early versions of these are so bad that even I can't stand them, the later versions had a balance that is almost impossible to duplicate.
Even more amazing is a '89 2210 is only one component away from "perfection"....(IMHO, better than a Diezel Herbert, but not a VH-4...again, just my opinion!)

As far as the 5150, I doubt that few know Peavey has been making really good high-gain amps for a very long time, but few could get past the Peavey "stigma".... I really don't think they sound anything like Mikey's amps! (of course, never really paid that much attention either!)

As always, I'm sure this more than you wanted to know.. but there it is!

Jeff Seal
 
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