Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

[ErikH]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

The Brobucker is 42AWG, lightly potted. It's probably the best humbucker I've ever used. It's one pickup that will tell you if the guitar has good wood or not. MJ put her magic in to this one for sure.

The Gibson '57 Classic is around 8.0-8.5k and the '57 Classic Plus is a little over 9k.

The Demon is a whole 'nother animal with the different wire and different pole pieces. It is my understanding that it is indeed 43AWG.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

It seems to me that there was a perceived *hole* in the Duncan line up - that is no real medium output humbuckers. It was a great idea. I really don't think that any of the other forum pickups have really filled a void in the Duncan line up. YMMV

Of course it depends on how it's wound and with what wire, but to me it seems like a 10K and 12K HB would fill a noticeable gap in the standard production Duncan line (not Custom Shop). I'd like something a little hotter than a '59 without having to go all the way up to a C5. That seems like a reasonable request. DiMarzio has a good assortment in medium output HB's, so there's obviously a demand out there. Duncan is missing some sales to competitors and that should be addressed.

 

[hanumanlangur]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

1. Adjust neck pickup and bridge pickup until output is equal
2. Turn up amp volume or gain
3. ???

Don't we have amplifiers for these things? It seems like a working knowledge of operating screwdrivers and knobs are the only things keeping us from our dream....

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

It's probably the Demon is a whole 'nother animal with the different wire and different pole pieces. It is my understanding that it is indeed 43AWG.

If thats true, a demon would be a heavy underwound C5 ????? If you ever compared a Custom coil with a demon coil you will see thats not the case.
Nope, a Demon is an overwound PAF with 42awg and thin poly isolation. The pole pieces have lower mass to compensate the highs.

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

The Demon's coil are not as all full like Custom coils ,
and I have been told by somebody at the custom shop
that Demon has 43 gauge ...

To me a pickup with 42 gauge wounded at 10k can't sound as dry and clean that the Demon , it is probably more compressed and sloppy ( not as tight ) .

Though there is pickup that stays a bit mysterious ; the Jazz neck pickup .
It is wound hotter than a 59' but sound cleanner ....
Is the Jazz neck has 43 gauge ?

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Is the Jazz neck has 43 gauge ?

If memory serves in the JB/Jazz story Seymour specifically mentions he only had enough 42 gauge wire for one pup.

To the original topic...

The Brobucker is a very cool pup and has a great sound but overall I prefer the tone of the 78. To me the 78 sounds more aggressive even though it has an A2 mag and less DC resistance.

In my opinion the 78 is like the rare hot bridge pup from the 50s that just kills.

All that said I'd still like to try an S-Deco.

Luke

 

[ErikH]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

The Jazz and '59 are both wound with 42AWG but wound differently enough to have their own distinct sound. Don't forget there's the number of turns and winding pattern that can affect the sound as well. And there's hardly a difference in the DC resistance between the two. .29 is a very small difference. There's a .23 difference in DC between both bridge models. Again, comes down to the number of turns and winding pattern.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I like mine around 13k for the bridge, 10k for neck sounds good to me though.

you wont get 13k worth of 42 on a bobbin so now you are talking about 43 which is a different beast.

It already exists, even though not many are familiar with it. The S-Deco is a custom shop pup and, imo, is one of the best sounding bridge pups out there. Not exactly 10k, but at 11.5k it is close enough...

again it uses 43 so different result

1. Adjust neck pickup and bridge pickup until output is equal
2. Turn up amp volume or gain
3. ???

Don't we have amplifiers for these things? It seems like a working knowledge of operating screwdrivers and knobs are the only things keeping us from our dream....

i have a 8.5k antiqutiy humbucker and a 9.4k antiquity bucker (cs obviously) if i could get what i wanted from the 8.5 stock ant then i wouldnt have paid the extra $$ to get the cs over wound one

If memory serves in the JB/Jazz story Seymour specifically mentions he only had enough 42 gauge wire for one pup.

To the original topic...

The Brobucker is a very cool pup and has a great sound but overall I prefer the tone of the 78. To me the 78 sounds more aggressive even though it has an A2 mag and less DC resistance.

In my opinion the 78 is like the rare hot bridge pup from the 50s that just kills.

All that said I'd still like to try an S-Deco.

Luke

the aged magnet loses some of the aggressive edge but the 78 is a different wind for sure.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

If thats true, a demon would be a heavy underwound C5 ????? If you ever compared a Custom coil with a demon coil you will see thats not the case.
Nope, a Demon is an overwound PAF with 42awg and thin poly isolation. The pole pieces have lower mass to compensate the highs.

A good way to test this would be to play my Custom, my Demon and my 8.5 Kohm '59 split, each, to get the effect of the imbus coil out of the picture.

But lazy today...

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Well I said at the beginning that this was about 42 gauge 10k range pups. Discussing this or 43 gauge, or holes in the lineup are interesting. The same old - "its the wood and tone is in your fingers" crowd showed up, sadly.... LMAO

I asked because the rage seemed to die down on a couple of forums, and I wanted to know a year or more later if everyone still felt it was the Holy Grail?

Seems some people sure like the Brobucker, but 70% of this thread is the usual of forum-ites doing everything BUT answer the original question.

 

[daemon barbeque]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

For me ,the 10k awg42 is not the holy grail at all.
It's not clean and tight enough to hit the amp as I wish it to do.
the sound is somehow rawer.I prefer more Hi-Fi .
That's why I was pushing hard on PATB ideas ,and around 15k.That brought the Crazy 8!

I think there is no holy grail at all...Evey guitar player has different needs. Every amp builder tests with many but different guitars ,and tries to make his amps all-rounder.

Ah and to clarify some points.
To get higher output and the same vibe ,PU height tricks wouldn't be enough.
I don't like to get false harmonics on every note ,I like my notes to ring longer ,and I hate the muddiness of a "too close" humbucker. That'swhy many metal players won't choose that kind of a PU...
Some don't drive Harleys ,they prefer Ducatis!

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Well I said at the beginning that this was about 42 gauge 10k range pups. Discussing this or 43 gauge, or holes in the lineup are interesting. The same old - "its the wood and tone is in your fingers" crowd showed up, sadly.... LMAO

I asked because the rage seemed to die down on a couple of forums, and I wanted to know a year or more later if everyone still felt it was the Holy Grail?

Seems some people sure like the Brobucker, but 70% of this thread is the usual of forum-ites doing everything BUT answer the original question.

Like I said I like the Brobucker but preferred the 78. The output difference is non-existent IMO. The 42 gauge wire is what it's all about.

Christian told me that you guys were talking about the 78 the other day. He said your "second hand description" nailed it down pretty nicely. In my PRS it is aggressive as all get out! The low end is soft just like every other A2, but not really as bad at the same time.

Luke

 

[LesPaulRules]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I'm not sure if the magic is 10k, but my two BroBuckers are simply the best sounding pickups I own. Both of them have been in several different Les Pauls, and all sounded great.

The VHPAF is compared to the BroB (I guess the 10k comes up), but the VHPAF doesn't sound the same. It's articulate, but not as full sounding. Seems to lack something that the BroBucker has.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I have a set of WCR Fillmores that fit those specs in my Hamer Mirage II.

-Austin

My apologies in case someone else pointed this out, but the Fillmores are a different animal -- 43 gauge wire. The Brobucker is 42.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

Like I said I like the Brobucker but preferred the 78. The output difference is non-existent IMO. The 42 gauge wire is what it's all about.

Christian told me that you guys were talking about the 78 the other day. He said your "second hand description" nailed it down pretty nicely. In my PRS it is aggressive as all get out! The low end is soft just like every other A2, but not really as bad at the same time.

Luke

Christian has been counseling me lately on all things guitar. He now insists the way for me must be a hot wind on an Antiquity - ah, decisions.

 

[JamesPaul]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

...

The VHPAF is compared to the BroB (I guess the 10k comes up), but the VHPAF doesn't sound the same. It's articulate, but not as full sounding. Seems to lack something that the BroBucker has.

Perhaps the VHPAF lacks true MoJo?

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I thought the Jazz was 43 gauge wire????

 

[hanumanlangur]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I thought the Jazz was 43 gauge wire????

I suspect that the Jazz is 43awg as well. I was just comparing the size of the coils between a '59 neck (7.52k) and a Jazz neck (7.59k) the other day. Despite having nearly identical resistance readings, the Jazz coils were significantly smaller than the '59 coils.

 

[kevinT]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I hate to throw a curve ball, but it is difficult to wind a 10k Ohm pickup with 42AWG wire. Can anyone document/prove that 42 is used on the brobucker?

It would require great tension in order to fit all of the wire on the bobbin without the wire bulging from the sides. Not saying it is impossible, but.... that amount of tension would change the tone, deaden it a bit, and make the pickup less musical so to speak.

I think it is more likely that 42.5 AWG wire or 43 AWG wire w/ heavy build insulation is used.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Did we decide 10K Humbuckers are the ideal?

I hate to throw a curve ball, but it is difficult to wind a 10k Ohm pickup with 42AWG wire. Can anyone document/prove that 42 is used on the brobucker?

It would require great tension in order to fit all of the wire on the bobbin without the wire bulging from the sides. Not saying it is impossible, but.... that amount of tension would change the tone, deaden it a bit, and make the pickup less musical so to speak.

I think it is more likely that 42.5 AWG wire or 43 AWG wire w/ heavy build insulation is used.

Since it has been done, I have to disagree. MJ and Seymour used 42AWG on the Brobucker when the forum came up with the specs for it. It is 42AWG. It is hardly dead and less musical. It's a very lively and great sounding pickup to be honest.

I really like humbuckers in that 9-10k range. Aside from the Brobucker, the Gibson '57 Classic Plus is another favorite of mine. Hot enough to punch through and cleans up really well with the volume knob.

I wouldn't say that 10k is the magic be-all-end-all design because that is going to be different for everybody. That's why there's so many choices out there.