Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

Iron1

New member
Looking for some input on this. I own an uncovered Nazgul that, for the most part I’ve enjoyed - It’s been in a Jackson dinky 7 since I first got it. Now, I’m about to buy a KM7 with a covered Naz/Sentient set in it. Am I better off selling the uncovered Naz or selling the covered set and buying an uncovered Sentient to go with the uncovered Naz in the KM7 ? (For reference, I play extreme metal - OSDM with VoiVod-ish influence to it). TIA!
 
Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

Just remove the covers to get the look. Covers make it sound slightly more vintage but it won't make a difference for extreme metal distortion levels.
 
Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

My experience with covers they look great on some guitars but just muffle the sound. Sure you can adjust pole pieces and all but I just like no covers on my guitars.

Now I recently had a Schecter Keith Merrow 7 string come in for some electronics work as the factory who made the push pull (not guitar) actually had the push pull backwards. The continuity of the switch was backwards and I've worked on 100s if not 1000s of guitars. I even took the pot out of the guitar for reassurance. On most Keith Marrow and some Jeff Loomis models the tone control is first for some reason and I hate it. I mean it's an easy fix but it's just weird like this certain Wylde Audio (Zakk Wylde) guitar had a 3 way toggle in what felt the worst spot possible.

The big difference with the KM7 versus a standard 7 string wiring wise on the model I worked was it had a single volume version. The volume control was 1000k (1m) not 500k. It was an "A1M" pot with a cheap ceramic capacitor doing a treble bleed. Ceramic capacitors are ok if you don't play live and no sense spending 3-5$ or more on a single capacitor. The fact there is no tone control alone means a brighter sound but this thing will cut through most mixes with ease. The guy gave me the push pull, it's got a 2 underlined. A bit of googling for reassurance it's a 2pf (pico farad) in value ceramic capacitor - 50v

2pf is
0.02nf - nano farads
0.000002uF - micro farads

The pickups measured in at these two measurements as some reason no one posts inductance of pickups and it's just as important.
Nazgul 7 string - bridge - covered
16.8K - DC Resistance
8.48H - Inductance

Sentient 7 string - neck - covered
9.09k - DC Resistance
5.13H - Inductance

found this photo online of the push pull. It's 100% a 1m pot I have the one in front of me I'm too lazy to take photos of.
View attachment 101707
 
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Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

My experience with covers they look great on some guitars but just muffle the sound. Sure you can adjust pole pieces and all but I just like no covers on my guitars.

Now I recently had a Schecter Keith Merrow 7 string come in for some electronics work as the factory who made the push pull (not guitar) actually had the push pull backwards. The continuity of the switch was backwards and I've worked on 100s if not 1000s of guitars. I even took the pot out of the guitar for reassurance. On most Keith Marrow and some Jeff Loomis models the tone control is first for some reason and I hate it. I mean it's an easy fix but it's just weird like this certain Wylde Audio (Zakk Wylde) guitar had a 3 way toggle in what felt the worst spot possible.

The big difference with the KM7 versus a standard 7 string wiring wise on the model I worked was it had a single volume version. The volume control was 1000k (1m) not 500k. It was an "A1M" pot with a cheap ceramic capacitor doing a treble bleed. Ceramic capacitors are ok if you don't play live and no sense spending 3-5$ or more on a single capacitor. The fact there is no tone control alone means a brighter sound but this thing will cut through most mixes with ease. The guy gave me the push pull, it's got a 2 underlined. A bit of googling for reassurance it's a 2pf (pico farad) in value ceramic capacitor - 50v

2pf is
0.02nf - nano farads
0.000002uF - micro farads

The pickups measured in at these two measurements as some reason no one posts inductance of pickups and it's just as important.
Nazgul 7 string - bridge - covered
16.8K - DC Resistance
8.48H - Inductance

Sentient 7 string - neck - covered
9.09k - DC Resistance
5.13H - Inductance

Hello,
I wouldn't mount a 2pF treble bleed, since it would do virtually nothing with a 1M volume pot. The usual value starting with a "2" for such things is 220pF. Many people use higher capacitances like 1nF or 1.2nF (=1000pF or 1200pF), with or without resistor in parallel or in series with the cap. Personally, I don't hesitate to choose a crude 1nF cap (1000pF) without resistor for high inductance pickups. YMMV. :-)

That said: thx to have shared the inductance of the mentioned pickups. Precious info!...

Regarding covers: what Clint55 said...
 
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Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

That's good info - thanks for the insight. I've heard the electronics in the KM7s are the best, but that seems like a pretty easy fix. The one I'm getting is a single volume, no tone, selector switch set-up. If/when I do replace the electronics, would you recommend re-wiring based on Duncan's schematics or sticking with the factory set up?
 
Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

With any kind of gain, I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference in sound between covered and uncovered.
 
Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

With any kind of gain, I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference in sound between covered and uncovered.

I wouldn't think so either, but the opinions definitely vary. I'm getting my hands on it later today, so I should know one way or the other by tonight if I like 'em. If not, then I'll be shopping for a new pickup set.

Thanks for all the info, folks!
 
Re: Difference between covered and uncovered Nazgul/Sentient sets?

For the capacitor I suspected it would be say 2nf at first for the capacitor as it seems useful as the usual treble bleed I put into peoples guitars is based upon the Kinman style of a 1nf capacitor with a 130k resistor. My multimeter doesn't go that far down for capacitors it read at like 0.02nf and I wasn't 100% sure so I googled it for reassurance. Either way I try my best to avoid treble bleeds.

Even a dirt cheap chinese push pull has the potential to be on the money (close to the specified resistance) so if that's the case I say keep the pot. You would have to disconnect the two white wires on the pot to test it. Set your multimeter to anything above 1M. My mastech multimeter for example goes from 200k to 2M, so naturally I'd want to use 2M. The lower the resistance the warmer and quieter the guitar.

some ways I'd approach it
if the guitar is too bright, try a 500k push pull. B500k 18mm split shaft - Linear pots will react the same way 10 to 0 as that treble bleed modified volume pots do.

Now in terms of upgrades you could go with any of these without drilling into the guitar

concentric pot - They are stacked unlike blend pots they feature two individual controls. This way you could throw in a tone control or a second volume. They are ugly and to find a useful one for this guitar would be hard or expensive. Just keep in mind with concentric pots that sometimes one value can be different from the other on one row of the pot. For example 250k and 500k. There are ones for example that are A500k / A500k. The shaft diameter is that of a CTS pot. One term that they use in some but not all is is center detent. Center detent means goes stiff in the center which can be extremely useful depending on the mod or player. The only con is aside from the ugly knob going up or down quickly on the volume to do swells would be weird.

The most extreme and versatile thing you could do to a KM7 without re-drilling holes is a "freeway" switch. You get 6 very different sounds out of one guitar as there is no such thing as a 7 string seymour duncan triple shot mounting rings the last time i checked. This is it. The price is ridiculous.
https://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and...and_Parts/Switches/Free-Way_Ultra_Switch.html

For wiring a Seymour Duncan wiring will do the job, every push pull I've encountered Dimarzio to 1980s Nobel ones out of this old Washburn all followed the same pin layout. However for anything extreme for wiring you've come to the right place.

hope you're enjoying the guitar
 
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