DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

[tone?]

anyone help me out on this?


i hear that the EL34 breaks up earlier, but how come KT88's are also used in more high gain amps?

do the KT88's distort as well like the EL34's when pushed?

Didnt Hendrix use 6550's in his Marshalls which are like KT88's??

any ideas?

im sure this is subjective as well.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

I've used 6550's in a JCM800. They and the KT88 have a tighter, cleaner sound. Not really like solid-state, but in that direction. I can see people using them in high-gain amps where they want that tight, ragged preamp distortion without any output-stage breakup to smooth it out.

The two people I can think of that use(d) 6550's in Marshalls are Andy Summers (during the Police years) and Zakk Wylde. Kind of a divergent pair, but they illustrate the point. Zakk's overdrive comes from his pedals and preamp, and he just wants the power amp to reproduce it without smoothing off the rough edges. (He takes that idea one step farther with the EVM12L's -no speaker breakup, either.) Andy Summers really wanted his amps to reproduce his effects; the 6550-loaded 2203 heads were a bit more "hifi" tha with EL34's.

Hendrix was most likely an EL34 guy, but I'm not the expert on his gear.

Marshalls sold in the U.S. in the 80's had 6550's in them, but not for tonal reasons. The importer thought they held up better, and didn't want to deal with warranty claims.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

My Marshall JMP has a set of KT88s in it. It had 6550s, but I'd heard that the KT88s sounded very nice in Mark 2 Marshalls. First of all Rich has a good point. Very tight bass, but also a singing quality at any decent volume. These tubes remind me of a mixed EL34 and 6L6. I'd like to try the same amp with EL34s too though.

Luke

 

[Koreldyre]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

KT88's deliver more power and headroom than EL34's or 6L6's, that is the main reason. This usually translates to explosive bass, defined highs and a general perception of higher fidelity sound. How good/evil the tubes sound in the end depend entirely on the designer. There are a number of quality amps out there that use KT88's to devastating effect in both clean and overdrive channels.

KT88's are often used in top-end audiophile receivers. People usually claim the KT88's allow them to hear individual instruments within a symphony orchestra to "come alive."

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

I'm not sure that Hendrix used 6550's much. At any rate, Iv'e been told that the 6550 he experimented with in 69 were not the same as the common GE 6550, but a Tung Sol version that is extremely rare. This Tung Sol 6550 isn't supossed to be as HI-Fi sounding as the GE 6550, but have the same tighter bass responce. A 6CA7 would also fill this role.

 

[tone?]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

what no mids from them?

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

what no mids from them?

I think they have more mids than 6L6s, not as many as a 34 though.

JJ just released a new KT77.

Luke

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

They have as much mids as the 34's, they are more liniar response(if they are good), Those I have used and use have a big clear fat sound, very woodlike and detailed, I love them along with KT-66's

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

I believe it goes something like this:

KT88 = kinkless tube 88 = very linear response

I believe that they were trying to make accurate amplification as opposed to the "kink" in 6l6 and 6v6 tubes.

I read this somewhere, so don't quote me on it.

 

[tone?]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

doesnt alot of this have to do with the way the amp is made as well?

so a KT88 amp can never be made to sound like a EL34?? or EL34 can never sound like 6l6's?

 

[tone?]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

what the heck is a kink in a tube??!! LOL

now im really confused!

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

The KT88 was supposed to amplify the input wave pretty equally (highs, lows and mids were pretty equal). People used tubes for Hifi audio stuff, and didn't want scooped mids, or twangy sounds. For these applications, tubes like el34s, KT88s, or 300bs were used. Some used 6l6s or 6v6s, but I don't think that they were the top notch amps. The kink is where the graph isn't linear.

Again, I wouldn't put money on these words, but I think that's the gyst of it.

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

Graph not being linear means for instance that the mids may not be amplified as much. I think.

I hope I actually helped, and didn't just spread a bunch of misconceptions.

 

[tone?]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

i am kinda getting it, would help if someone else would agree with you or not.

sounds convincing enough
i know that KT88 are used in audio amps are EL34 as well?

 

[tone?]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

also, i hear that EL34 saturate and KT88's dont

dont KT88'S saturate? you dont get power tube saturation with KT88's?

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

I've seen some home audio amps with el34s in them. I've also read audiophile magazines that had advertisements for el34s.

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure exactly what saturation means. If it means distortion, I'm sure that KT88s will distort at some point. Maybe I should just wait for some one who is more knowledgeable to chime in. Maybe someone like Scott would know.

 

[Marcel]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

KT88 thick tone for high volumes?!?

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

What kinkless meant was a kink in the sine wave when observed on a scope. All these tubes were audio tubes, meaning they were designed to reproduce sound with as little distortion as possible. A kink on the scope indicates distortion at a given output level. A kinkless tube had very little distortion at it designed output level. In plain language, they had higher clean head room.

These traits come through when used in guitar amps. The EL34 reaches it's designed head room relatively early, and starts to distort sooner. The small amount of harmonic distortion, creates over tones over the fundamental tone. This can be heard as greater harmonic complexity in the mids at low distortion levels. This is indicated by a kink when viewed on a scope. Higher head room tubes will be precieved as more "transparent" in the mids and treble, and the bass will be more tight and solid, as they stay clean longer.

A KT88 will stay clean right up to about the max output potential of the amp. For example, a 100 watt Marshall with EL34's starts to distort at about 105 watts output. It's max output is about 180 watts though. With KT88's it's stays clean to about 180 watts output. The amp is the same max power either way, but with EL 34's it's more distorted and less transparent at gig volume. The mids are precieved as more with the EL34's, because it's less transparent.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: DIfference between KT88's and EL34's

"Saturation" is guitarist speak I think. I think it indicates the point beyond clipping when the signal is being so squashed and compressed, that it produces a saturated total distortion effect, with seamless sustain. Obviously, the tube that can be pushed further after the on-set of distortion, will saturate more than the high head room tube.