Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Hmm Joe...depending on what coil is the hottest, I like it when the hottest is closest to the neck, gives me more of that singlecoil clarity.
I like the clarity, sometimes it almost sounds like two different pickups that are very close to each other, gives that funny krrak attack, they sound more aggressive to me, very lively, oldschool in some funny way?"?!
It is a subtle effect, but depending on the usual things, it can make a difference that is very tactile, feels like being connected in a different way?!
Hehe anyways I like the mismatched tone I have gotten from my hybrids, I have a JB/Demon screwcoil with an A2 magnet that will stay as they are, also have a 59b/ Demonhexcoil A5 that also stays like it is, those are my weapons for oldstyle sounds!
I will get myself some additional strats or alikes for those
Cool topic!!

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

The PG is wired four conductor. If the parts, and the construction and winding method are the same for each coil, except for the possible difference in number of windings; couldn't you measure each coil on an ohmeter and determine if they are balanced?

I have the same question about a Seth Lover, the neck model in particular - is it asymetrically wound? Unfortunately since it's two conductor, my suggestion for the PG wouldn't help answer this for the Seth Lover. :sad:

Yes, you can easily check the DCR on each coil separately with 4-conductor wiring. Put one probe on the red and white wires twisted or soldered together and the other probe on the green and then the black wire to get the two readings.

If I recall correctly, Evan has said that the PG is NOT mismatched. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Evan.) I'm fairly certain that the Seth Lover isn't either.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

It's important to know that mismatched doesn't automatically mean better, just a different sound.

It's true. Seymour's stuff is proof that you can make great pu's without mismatching the coils.

 

[Fresh_Start]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Could you approximate mismatched coils by partially shorting one of the coils using a resistor?

In other words, tie a resistor between the hot output and the series junction between the two coils. Wouldn't that allow some of the signal of the first coil (the one attached to ground) to go directly out, bypassing the second coil?

Just a whacky idea...

Chip

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

There is a more conventional way of doing that called Spin-A-Split, which is also a LOT more versatile than a fixed resistor. Look for it in the Duncan wiring diagrams.

You solder the series link of the coils to the middle lug of a pot and you use the pot to dial out as little or as much of the 2nd coil as you want. The downside is you have to give up one of your tone or volume pots to become the Spin-A-Split pot.

Dialing the pot back all the way gives you pure single coil model, all the way up gives you the full humbucker. And between 0 and 10, you can get whatever you want from hot single coil to minihumbucker to P90.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

There is a more conventional way of doing that called Spin-A-Split, which is also a LOT more versatile than a fixed resistor. Look for it in the Duncan wiring diagrams.

You solder the series link of the coils to the middle lug of a pot and you use the pot to dial out as little or as much of the 2nd coil as you want. The downside is you have to give up one of your tone or volume pots to become the Spin-A-Split pot.

Dialing the pot back all the way gives you pure single coil model, all the way up gives you the full humbucker. And between 0 and 10, you can get whatever you want from hot single coil to minihumbucker to P90.

I need to try this sometime. It sounds like a great feature on a HSS strat, especially since I never use the middle tone knob anyway.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

I need to try this sometime. It sounds like a great feature on a HSS strat, especially since I never use the middle tone knob anyway.

Do it. It's a super-easy mod to do and easily reversible. You can also switch the coil that's being dialed out by soldering the green and black wires to the SAS pot middle lug, red to hot, white to ground. (Again, this is for pickups using the Duncan color code.)

 

[WGTP]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

If you wire a phase reversal switch to the pickup, you can change the coil that stays on back and forth.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Yes, but then you would be out of phase with the other pickups on one of the coils.

You should be able to use a DPDT switch to reverse the order of the coils (e.g., which coil the current goes into first) which would not reverse the phasing at all.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

You can do that, or I thought of possibly an even cooler way to do it. You could use a center detent blender pot. If you got one with the right tapers, you could have center humbucker, and -5=Neck side coil, +5=Bridge side coil. I haven't thought it through to completion to know if you could truly end up with 100% humbucker in the center, but I think there's definitely a way. Otherwise you'd just wire a switch that swapped pickup hot and ground on the spin-a-split. That way you'd either be folding one coil into hot or ground, thus alternating between coils.

 

[Artie]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Everyone else covered it, so I'll just say that the comments about more "air" and more harmonic richness are right on the money. My Predator has a Distortion/59 and a 59/CC in it.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

On further review (and a headache to boot), it appears there isn't a way switch the order of the coils on a DPDT and have it working together with an SAS pot. There are too many wire connections to make and break for the DPDT to handle it.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Dude, I've never like played one with mismatched coils, but my buddy Cooter, he has, and he can rip it up on Free Bird bro. He says mismatched coils, one wound to 9k and the other to 11 with a ceramic mag totally nails the vintage PAF sound. It's true, I heard it thru his Peavy Bandit and Epiphone Genuine Les Paul....it rawks.

 

[WGTP]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

How about if the switch was between the jack and the rest of the rig. This would change both pickups at the same time, as well as which coil was left on with the SAS?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

You sure it was 9k + 11k? I don't see how a 20k pickup would nail anything like a PAF tone.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Me'thinks he's being a wiseguy. LOL

 

[Mephis]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Dude, I've never like played one with mismatched coils, but my buddy Cooter, he has, and he can rip it up on Free Bird bro. He says mismatched coils, one wound to 9k and the other to 11 with a ceramic mag totally nails the vintage PAF sound. It's true, I heard it thru his Peavy Bandit and Epiphone Genuine Les Paul....it rawks.

In parallel... But in series? haahhaha

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

Me'thinks he's being a wiseguy. LOL

Curses! Fooled again!!!

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Difference in tone. Matched and mismatched coils?

I did a lot of experiments with two modified DiMarzio PAF (a great start for that). They are now both unbuckers (from fretboard side 4k/3.75k and 5k/4k to bridge side). I mixed the coils, unwound the coils, changed the magnets, flipped the magnets and came almost to the same conclusions as frankalbo and David (alias Zhang). The above combination is now my dream team with a A4 in the neck and a A8 in the bridge. I'm sure i could go up the 9.5 or 10k with the bridge without loosing the PAF due to the mismatch/unbucker construction - still transparent and clear with strong mids.