Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

[gman128]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

For me it's the finishing appointments done to the neck - cheap guitars have less attention paid to making sure: the frets are crowned and levelled properly, there is no overhang off the edge of the fretboard, the neck is made of quartesawn wood/has reinforcement wood like walnut or bubinga.

This is really noticable on superstrat and shred guitars, ibanez, esp and jackson all get nicer finished necks as you move into their Japanese/USA made guitars. That for me is worth the price hike. - you can just pick one of those guitars up, set the action and truss rod to your preference, and play without issue.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

This issue occurs in almost every aspect of life ... why are there cheap versions and very expensive versions of almost any product ?

There are differences, but they become subtle at the higher level. It's the 'diminidhing returns' factor .... it's affordable to get to 80 or 90% quality, but getting into that last 10% of quality costs a lot more money. I always find myself saying to people "If you can't hear/feel the differences, you are lucky .... you will be more than happy with the more affordable versions. If you CAN hear/feel the differences, you are cursed, because you will never be happy until you have spent the serious amount of extra dollars to get into that last few per cent of quality".

So sometimes, ignorance is bliss (and a heck of a lot cheaper). But once you cross the line and hear/feel for yourself the subtle but very real differences of the high-end stuff, there's no going back.

And with guitars, they are a recipe, and every ingredient plays a part. Average wood, budget hardware and inexpensive finishes can still lead to a good instrument. But at the higher level, every ingredient will be higher quality and most likely, more time will be spent on each instrument. Is it worth the large amount of extra money for the high-level version? Only your hands and your ears will tell you, and because you may not discern any differences now doesn't mean that won't change along the journey.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

Money and brand name!

 

[Jocelyn]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

The quality if inexpensive guitars has increased greatly since i started playing around 1986. Back then the cheap guitars had poor quality Floyds, poor pickups, back neck pocket routes- there's a reason once companies like Dean, BC Rich and Kramer started importing guitars, that the poor quality diminished their American brand and they went under. These days it's hard to go into a chain like Guitar Center and pick up a guitar that isn't playable- even with issues like Gibson's quality control, Gibson, on a whole, is making less clinkers than they used to.

My boss had a Mexican strat that he got at Salvation Army for $200. Neck was warped, fretboard grimy, and unplayable due to neglect. Within 48 hours I did a setup on it, put in an EMG Gilmour set, and that $200 guitar sounded and played than most guitars up to $1,000.

The difference, IMO, is longevity. I've had many guitars over the years. The inexpensive ones get modded to death, later on sold, and they aren't keepers. The more expensive ones tend to have better wood, have less problems in the long term and are lifetime instruments- my 1986 Les Paul Custom, 1989 Jackson USA Soloist, 2000 EBMM Axis, 1989 Fender Clapton Strat.

My constant complaint is that cheaper (import) guitars tend to purposely use softer fretwire that wears down quickly, so that in a few years you're faced with a decision as to whether it makes sense to put money in to a refret, when a new guitar won't cost that much more- so the companies are ensuring you buy another one of their guitars.

+Very good info. Thanks a lot.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

There are differences, but they become subtle at the higher level. It's the 'diminidhing returns' factor .... it's affordable to get to 80 or 90% quality, but getting into that last 10% of quality costs a lot more money.

+1. To me, rather than pour money into getting that last 10%, I think what will separate you more as a player is your skills. Do some tasty, creative playing and no one will nit pick if your tone isn't quite the same as a high end model. And who's going to hear it all that well at the average gig: a bar full of people talking, laughing, clinking glasses, and sliding chairs. Odds are you're playing in a room with questionable acoustics (at best) and the mix/levels of of the PA and instruments certainly aren't studio quality. I've often seen local bands where you can barely hear an instrument or two (I talk to them during breaks). It's not uncommon to see a 5 or 6 piece band and only hear 3 of them most of the gig. Good tones and good levels can make for better music than great tones in a poor mix. How tight is the band? How fresh, or stale, is their song list? Is the guitar out of tune? There's so many factors to putting on an entertaining evening of music. For me, getting that 'last 10%' of tone doesn't seem to give enough bang for the buck.

 

[ImmortalSix]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

Mostly finish, in my opinion.

Well, and hardware.

My Epiphones feel like they are candy coated and my USA stuff feels like it was very delicately finished

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

+1. To me, rather than pour money into getting that last 10%, I think what will separate you more as a player is your skills.

There's no reason why some people can't do both ....and the people who have thier instruments in their hands a lot will probably be more sensitive and attuned to the higher-quality versions.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

And who's going to hear it all that well at the average gig: a bar full of people talking, laughing, clinking glasses, and sliding chairs. Odds are you're playing in a room with questionable acoustics (at best) and the mix/levels of of the PA and instruments certainly aren't studio quality. I've often seen local bands where you can barely hear an instrument or two (I talk to them during breaks). It's not uncommon to see a 5 or 6 piece band and only hear 3 of them most of the gig.

I agree, at some point a listening audience isn't going to hear the differences we're talking about here. However .... if the higher-quality instrument, pedal, amp or whatever is making the user happy, the user is probably playing better and enjoying the process more. THAT will translate to an audience in a tangible way.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

You can pick up 1981-1983 area Ibanez Blazers and Roadstar IIs for $200-$300 that hold their water against anything bolt on, as long as you put in your pickups of choice and maybe put in a proper 6-point trem.

 

[voggin]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

Some of the better "budget" guitars are slowly creeping up in price to the lower end of the expensive stuff (or the expensive stuff is getting less expensive). I love PRS SE guitars, but if you work in a pickup swap on a new Santana SE and some other tinkering, you are getting pretty close to the price of a new USA Gibson SG Standard. Same with some really nice 700-800 epis I've seen lately. Of course, that's premised on you liking the stock SG pickups.

BTW, I really have to get an SG. I think, when they are on sale or with a coupon, SG's and Fender American Special strats and teles are among the best guitar buys out there. (Not to mention used prices).

But to add to Crusty's 80-90% idea, it is amazing how little it costs now to reach that level. In the '80s, you were lucky to get 40-50% quality for the same money.

 

[voggin]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

I agree, at some point a listening audience isn't going to hear the differences we're talking about here. However .... if the higher-quality instrument, pedal, amp or whatever is making the user happy, the user is probably playing better and enjoying the process more. THAT will translate to an audience in a tangible way.

That's why I wish I had never played an expensive guitar. Once you play a Martin, the old campfire guitar loses a lot of it's charm.

 

[hareek]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

What always gets me is when people knock the more expensive guitars in order to justify their less expensive purchase. 90% of the time, the more expensive guitar costs more because it simply is better in most, if not all, aspects. Better wood, better electronics, better hardware, better fret wire, better assembly and attention to detail, and so on. If you like the way a "cheaper" guitar feels or sounds, then hats off to you, enjoy it. But they aren't the same. Granted cheaper guitars aren't always crap and can actually be decent (Like a MIM strat), the more expensive counterpart will usually be better. The decision comes down to whether that extra expense is worth it to you or not. Often times, we aren't talking a bank breaking difference. A MIM strat will run you around $400-$500 give or take, and an American Standard will run you about $1,000. $500 more is not a big deal to me and in my opinion worth the expense to get a much better guitar. Now if the American Standard cost $3,000, I may have to reconsider paying the premium, but I'm not going to act like it's not a better guitar either. At the end of the day, this debate will never have a settled conclusion because everyone is different....always have been, and always will be. It's all personal opinion about what is right in your eyes, er ears, er hands....whatever!

 

[blueman335]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

There's no reason why some people can't do both ....and the people who have thier instruments in their hands a lot will probably be more sensitive and attuned to the higher-quality versions.

Absolutely. Some great players have top notch gear. But some don't. And some mediocre players have great gear. There's not necessarily a strong correlation between all this. I know people who've played guitar for decades and are still so-so players, or even marginal, so it's not even always how much time they have a guitar in their hands. It's how you use that time and what's going on in your head.

Ideally, the best players have the best gear, and many times that's the case. But if I have to choose between listening to a great player with mid-priced gear, or an average player with great gear...

When it gets down to it, I really don't care what a guitarist is using, I want to hear what he can do with it. It's makes no difference to me whether his guitar and amp cost a total of $500 or $5,000. I want to hear what that person's fingers can do.

 

[Sruffie777]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

When it gets down to it, I really don't care what a guitarist is using, I want to hear what he can do with it. It's makes no difference to me whether his guitar and amp cost a total of $500 or $5,000. I want to hear what that person's fingers can do.

100% agree

 

[9unslin9er]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

Agreed on all fronts about the majority of the cost being in the last 10% of the quality of the guitar.

It would be fair to say that given the option, all of us would pay the premium for an instrument custom tailored to our playing. I think it's rather pretentious however for a musician to play the role of a charlatan and use their premo instrument to cover up crud playing.

It doesn't bother me as much when a world class guitarist, or even a talented up-and-comer has a pricey guitar. It DOES get me when that doctor or lawyer shows off his $6000 Vigier to his buddies when all she knows is how to play Wonderwall.

I guess that's what bothers me the most about American/Private Stock Paul Reed Smiths. Not for the Orianthis or Tremontis who play them, but the company has a reputation of catering to posers. All bark no bite as they say.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

When it gets down to it, I really don't care what a guitarist is using, I want to hear what he can do with it. It's makes no difference to me whether his guitar and amp cost a total of $500 or $5,000. I want to hear what that person's fingers can do.

Good. Then don't worry about what I play.

I don't worry about what other people are playing but I know what I like and prefer. I care a lot about that and when I'm feelin' it, the gear does make a difference in what my fingers can do.

 

[bruce bennett]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

well, do you want the truth.. or "the real truth"

basically it boils down to labor costs, some material differences, and federal regs. and a dash of Patriotisim.

you can slice it anyway you want.. but when it all comes down to the end of the day. either you want an American made guitar, or you don't care about where its made at all. you just want the cheapest possible guitar available.


I don't judge anymore, I used to... but its become very clear to me that very few really cares about this anymore.

which is why I just made an post today offering our own Korean made version of our forward thinking guitar designs.

top flight American Design with the less expensive, but excellent materials and consistant craftsmanship, from Korean labor.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

Good. Then don't worry about what I play.

Believe me baby, I ain't losing sleep over how you spend your money.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

I think it's rather pretentious however for a musician to play the role of a charlatan and use their premo instrument to cover up crud playing.

Well that's just it, if you're a 'cruddy' player, it doesn't matter what you spent on your gear. Nothing's going to bail you out except some serious practicing.

I take some ribbing from time to time for showing up with an Epi, but I redeem myself by the time I get off stage, so I can handle anyone initially looking down their nose at me. I'd rather under promise and overdeliver, than the other way around.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Differences between Cheap and Expensive guitars?

I can answer that by way of a personal example.

A few years ago I bought THE cheapest guitar a Korean company named Swing built at the time under their own name (the had a subsidiary for the really low-end) because I liked the basic specs and the neck was to die for.

It cost me 300 euros out of the door.
I bought her fully intending to pluck at least as much money on upgrades but didn't really fully understood how much that would be.

The guitar was finished in Tung-Oil which is basically rub-on so I could see saving mega-bucks on the non-finish.
The wood was obviously local (Asian) and certainly not grade-A. It was also pretty heavy.
After a couple of weeks EVERY screw on that guitar started oxidizing and every plastic part started warping. Again, that was LESS THAN A MONTH from getting her and I was the one to take her out of her box.
Also in less than a month, the finish on the hardware (cheap Asian-made Schaller-type Floyd, knobs and tuning keys) started fading out.
The electronics were mega crap and the pickups were completely sterile and lifeless.

In the next two years I literally upgraded EVERYTHING that was not made of wood.

I changed the pickups, all of the electronics, new knobs/3-way, I got a Gotoh Floyd, Sperzel locking tuners, a new nut, new pickup rings, shaved/re-cut the back-covers and trussrod cover plus several heavy-duty luthier works to fix things like frets/fret ends, fingerboard rolling plus multiple setups to return the instrument after shifting due to the wood still settling.
Thankfully Tung-oil is a cheap finish that does however allow the wood to fully breathe, even better than an expertly applied nitro finish. You just can't use color with it and doesn't really offer much in the way of protection.

So, now four years later, the wood has mostly settled, the grain looks deeper, the tone is richer/more even, the weight is surprisingly reduced (must have been excess humidity in the wood) and she feels, plays and sounds like a million bucks.

However, if you put all that money on upgraded parts and the careful and time-consuming work of a proper luthier, the after-market costs rose up to a whopping 1000-1100 euros, bringing the total to 1300-1400 euros plus the passing of FOUR years for the wood to acclimate, and it's still not completely done.

Now to be perfectly honest I really haven't regretted it for the sole reason that I knew what I was getting into from the get go.
I only did it simply because I saw it as a project from the start plus, with that money which I consider sensible for a high quality instrument I got EXACTLY what I wanted whereas chances are, if I were to buy a 1500 euro guitar I would still end up upgrading the PUs.
Not only that but she also was the basis and main inspiration when I had Will Stinnett build me my custom-built SS6, my current No.1.

However it made it abundantly clear to me when comparing a 300 and 2000 euros guitar where that extra money goes...