Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

[strummer]

Although its probably kindergarten stuff to most of the visitors and contributors to this forum , I would find a clear explanation of the differences between mini humbuckers , P90s and stacked single coils most helpful , hopefully with diagrams of how the magnets are arranged and wired. There appears to be confusion in some areas e.g. P90s have been variously described as chunky single coils, small mini humbuckers and stacked single coils and I remember seeing stacked single coils being referred to as being like mini humbuckers.

Some notes on the pros and cons and idiosyncrasies of each type would also be useful. For example I remember reading somewhere that P90s do not respond well to full coil tapping but a partial tap achieved by wiring in a resistor can produce a very useable more single coil tone. Presumably this acts like a “dial a split” in the 7 position or thereabouts. The calculation of the correct value of such a resistor no doubt involves some quite complicated mathematics

 

[mrturtle_91]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

well, P-90s are single coil pickups...a stacked single coil is a single coil pickup with two coils stacked on top of each other (I believe) in order to cancel hum. A mini humbucker is just a humbucker, but in a smaller size, still 2 side by side coils. Hope that helps

 

[DonP]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Although its probably kindergarten stuff to most of the visitors and contributors to this forum , I would find a clear explanation of the differences between mini humbuckers , P90s and stacked single coils most helpful , hopefully with diagrams of how the magnets are arranged and wired. There appears to be confusion in some areas e.g. P90s have been variously described as chunky single coils, small mini humbuckers and stacked single coils and I remember seeing stacked single coils being referred to as being like mini humbuckers.

Some notes on the pros and cons and idiosyncrasies of each type would also be useful. For example I remember reading somewhere that P90s do not respond well to full coil tapping but a partial tap achieved by wiring in a resistor can produce a very useable more single coil tone. Presumably this acts like a “dial a split” in the 7 position or thereabouts. The calculation of the correct value of such a resistor no doubt involves some quite complicated mathematics

You have some bad advise there. A P90 is a single coil. While it's possible to tap a single, it's not very common. You can do the spin a split on the stacked single or mini hum.

There is no general advise because you need to tell us which P90 vs. which stacked hum vs. which mini hum you are comparing against.

In general, I love the P90's in my 1963 SG Special. I've heard Gibson Mini-hums from the 70s are bright but I've never tried them. And I hear great things about DiMarzio HS3 but never tried one either.

 

[strummer]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

I have to be honest and say that I have found neither of these responses at all helpful especially Mrturtle's comment about P90s cannot be split. This has to be totally incorrect. On this very site the wiring diagram for the S/D P90 refers to the fact it can be wired in series, in parallel or as a split single coil! Even I, as a novice, can read that! It also says that the P90 is a "stacked" pick up. How does this differ from a stacked single coil? Also is it correct that a Gretsch mini humbuckers are sometimes stacked?

As regards the "partial split" which has been called "bad advice" , this does seem to have logic even to someone with my limited knowledge. Has anybody any experience of this. The problem with being a relative novice and having a steep learning curve is that one has to research and ask and obviously query answers that you do not understand.

My current guitar project is not relevant to this thread. I am rewiring a Tele Cusom with two HBs to give multi pu configurations. I shall no doubt be seeking advice seperately in due course!

Are there any diagrams/ pictures anywhere with exploded views of pu s?

 

[strummer]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Apologies to Mrturtle, I misquoted him.

 

[Gstring]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Firstly I must make it clear that , like you, I am new to guitar electronics and cannot give a technical answer to your query.

I suspect others on this forum will disagree but it is my belief that there is very little difference between P90s and stacked single coils . I also have a Tele Custom which I am rewiring but it is fitted with P90s (Duncan Designed) . Absolutely no complaints about the sound and I suspect they are pretty close to USA Duncans. Factory wiring is in parallel (S/D actually recommend this to get an authentic P90 sound) and the pick ups themselves are connected in series ; the complete reverse of the usual HB set up. Unfortunately this did not enable blending with the two vol controls. I am rewiring with push pulls to give both parallel and series wiring on the pups and also hope to be instal a switch to vary the way the pups are connected to each other.

I have actually heard of the “partial split” to which you refer. I recollect reading an (expensive) guitar review where this had been fitted as factory standard. Understand it reduces hum. No doubt one of the Gurus on this sight has all the information on whether its worthwhile or just a gimmick.

 

[Artie]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

I have to be honest and say that I have found neither of these responses at all helpful especially Mrturtle's comment about P90s cannot be split. This has to be totally incorrect. On this very site the wiring diagram for the S/D P90 refers to the fact it can be wired in series, in parallel or as a split single coil!

Hi Strummer. Part of the confusion comes from the fact that SD makes four different P-90's. (Actually, five, now with the new SHPR-1). The SP90-1/2/3 and SPH90-1 Phat Cat are all true single-coils that can neither be split or tapped. The STK-P1 is a stacked P-90 that can be split, series, or parallel. (One coil is physically stacked on top of the other.)

A single coil pickup has an open, chimey, bell-like tone due in part to its lower inductance and overall construction. A humbucker, on the other hand, is simply two singles tied together in series. You gain noiseless operation but have twice the inductance and DC resistance. So, you lose some high-end and chime. A "stacked" anything is a compromise, wherein you utilize two coils in order to get the hum-cancelling, but without going whole-hog on the amount of windings. A stacked single won't have quite the chime of a true single and a stacked P-90 won't have quite the spank and punch of a true P-90.

You just decide how much of a compromise you're willing to make to avoid noise.

I've never tried a mini-humbucker myself, so hopefully someone else will describe their sound. But once again, they lie somewhere between a humbucker and a P-90. I think.

 

[strummer]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Many thanks to ArtieToo and Gstring for their replies. As I now understand it, P90s, stacked single coils and possibly some mini humbuckers can all basicly be the same. But can also be completely different depending on the manufacturer and model. A bit confusing but everything is now much much clearer.

Does anybody have any info on the partial coil split?

 

[Artie]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Not sure what you mean by "partial coil split". With a stacked anything, you can select only one coil, or wire the two coils in either series or parallel. You would wire it up like any normal humbucker wiring, usually by grounding the red/white pair. This will give you the more authentic single-coil or P-90 sound, at the cost of a little noise.

Is that what you meant?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Many thanks to ArtieToo and Gstring for their replies. As I now understand it, P90s, stacked single coils and possibly some mini humbuckers can all basicly be the same. But can also be completely different depending on the manufacturer and model. A bit confusing but everything is now much much clearer.

Does anybody have any info on the partial coil split?

There's either a "coil split", which is what people say when they run only one coil in a 4-conductor humbucker, or a "coil tap", which means running only a part of the coil in a 3-conductor single coil.

Reading that P-90ties and humbuckers are the same dropped my IQ by 10 points in a split second.

If you'd force me to describe them:

• The P-90 is a "screamer" pickup, a fat raw single-coil. With a lot of hum.
• The mini-humbuckers are what you use for "shiny" clean picking sounds that are smoother than a Fender style pickup would give you and lack the fatnesss of a PAF style pickup played clean.
• Stacks are replacements for single coils (either Strats or P-90ties) that you use if you cannot live with the hum, you are willing to give up sound quality and you don't like the blade-equipped rails pickups. The stacks are closer to a real Strat pickup than the rails, although neither sound like the real thing and some people end up preferring the rails but the stacks are closer.

In my opinion all three are bogus.

 

[Artie]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

In my opinion all three are bogus.

Although, on the funny side, had Leo thought of stacks or rails, we'ld now be refering to singles as cheap copies that were too bright, ear-piercing and noisy.

 

[strummer]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Re "partialy split coils" I am a bit overwhelmed by all the high tech people in this Forum but will try to explain my understanding of the concept which is based on something I read in a guitar mag 3 or 4 years ago.

As I understand it in a 4 conductor pick up one coil can be cut out completely (coil tap) or removed in varying stages (dial a split) if you have a tone control to spare.In the article I read somebody was unhappy with the "tinny" sound of his pick up after installing a coil tap via a push pull so experimented by wiring both sides in series with a resistor across one of the coils in the pull position...cutting out only 70% of the coil and getting a much better sound with minimum 60 cycle hum. Presumably this was like having a dial a split at position 7 but was (a) non adjustable and (b) did not require the use of spare tone control. The theory sounds logical and I recollect also reading that stacked coils respond better to this style of tapping. Of course the people who wrote these things may have been completely looney!

 

[Artie]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Hmmm . . . thats actually a pretty cool idea. And it fits in with what I observed while doing some spin-a-split experiments this morning.

Thanks for that info.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

i'm sorry but P90's, minihumbuckers, and stacked single coils ARE NOT BASICALLY THE SAME THING. I mean they are in that they're all guitar pickups but they're all constructed very differently.

As has been said before, a P90 is basically a huge single coil. They sound open and raw and look really cool to boot, but they are SINGLE COIL so they cannot be 'split' as there isn't anything TO split. Some can be 'tapped' which can be done to all types of single coil pickups.

Basically this is when a wire is connected to the single-coil at a winding that would produce the 'vintage' output (like say 6k) and then the pickup is wound up to a hotter winding (like 10k or 12k) and then another wire is connected there. Then with a switch you can change your single coil from 'vintage' to 'hot' output.

Your resistor idea is pretty similar to that, and your idea would be a good alternative for somebody who doesn't wanna call up the Custom Shop for a tapped pickup.

A mini-humbucker is a humbucker, but smaller. Kinda like Mini-Me. Basically two small single coils combined to one small hum-cancelling pickup. Not a very P-90 tone at all, more like a super-clean PAF, with the bass and mids toned down a bit to produce a smooth clean tone. I'd use one for an indie band or something.

Somewhere between the 70's style Gibson mini-humbuckers and the stacked single coils there are the Rails-style pickups. The Strat single-coil sized-humbuckers, including the JB Jr. and Li'l 59, and the Hot and Cool Rails. Lots of people dig these pickups, i rocked the Hot Rails for a while and want a Tele to put another one in...lots of flavors of tone to choose from in this series.

Stacked single coils have been described pretty well so far, they're doubled-up single coils that are designed to reduce hum. This technique has been applied to Strat-style, Tele-style, Jaguar-style, Jazzmaster-style, and yes, even P-90 style single coil pickups. You can wire these pickups in series / split / parralel but it wouldn't produce the same results as with a normal humbucker. I guess in theory 'split' would give you true single coil tone but I'm not very familiar with those pickups so don't quote me.

I really hope this clears up any confusion because P90's, minihums and stacked singles don't really have much in common design-wise and it's good to have those terms straight y'know? :smokin: As for similarities in tone, i mean all electric guitars sound basically the same in the big picture, so don't be too shocked when you start hearing about great single coils for distortion and good active pickups for clean tone...there's something out there for everybody.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

Being brighter, P-90's, Phat Cats, and mini-HB's are particularly well-suited to the neck position. And are a great match for a full-size HB in the bridge. One of the great mysteries of the guitar market is why we don't see these combinations being offered in any kind of quantities. Why, oh why?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Differences between P90s, stacked single coils and mini humbuckers

As I understand it in a 4 conductor pick up one coil can be cut out completely (coil tap) or removed in varying stages (dial a split) if you have a tone control to spare.In the article I read somebody was unhappy with the "tinny" sound of his pick up after installing a coil tap via a push pull so experimented by wiring both sides in series with a resistor across one of the coils in the pull position...cutting out only 70% of the coil and getting a much better sound with minimum 60 cycle hum. Presumably this was like having a dial a split at position 7 but was (a) non adjustable and (b) did not require the use of spare tone control. The theory sounds logical and I recollect also reading that stacked coils respond better to this style of tapping. Of course the people who wrote these things may have been completely looney!

That kind of "mixing" with the potentiometers of a passive guitar doesn't work too well Because in the normal schematics they are not independent enough and if you connect them backwards (part of what people refer to as "50ties mod") they kill too many highs. Doesn't matter whether you use two potis or a fixed value resistor, same problem.

Don't get me wrong, the idea is interesting, it is why hybrids are so popular. The two different coils make an interesting variant.

But what the real deal would be is a 6-conductor humbucker that has tapped coils. Each coil tapped, and of course you can also split the thing. Then you can mix in one coil tapped with the other one untapped for the hybrid/uneven-coils effect, without having to kill the sound quality with potentiometers.