Digital Delay Questions

[Xandeeno]

I am looking to get my first delay pedal and am torn between analogue and digital. The digital delay pedal I am looking at is the prophet by tc electronic. Can a digital delay like the prophet get a classic analogueish delay sound? Also will it turn my entire signal digital when engaged?
Cheers

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Can't comment on that specific delay pedal

But yes a digital delay must generally digitize your signal
Don't feel bad though as even cheap digital signal chips are pretty high sampling rate low latency HiFi suitable things
The main consideration should be
Do you want the delays to be close to exact copy of your signal,
Or do you want the delays to be colored, warmer sounding copies?

I thought I liked the analog delay sound but with some distortion and reverb, things were kinda muddy. I found digital delays to sound good for keeping clarity even when I was going for a dense sound... Ymmv

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[Xandeeno]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Thanks that was really helpful. I mainly just want one that I can mess around with, hence why I'm thinking digital. I assume as it is true bypass that when the pedal is deactivated the signal will revert back to analogue.
Cheers for the help

 

[Blille]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

That particular pedal goes for a super pristine clean repeat so it will not sound analog.

To get that you need at least a pedal that emulates analog with a mode like the DD7 Or Flashback.

You can have actual analog and digital in one pedal:
https://youtu.be/Y19m4r8pHVs

 

[Xandeeno]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

For me I would probably rather a more accurate representation of my tone as opposed to a coloration. What mainly seems appealing about digital is the longer timings and much more versatile nature

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

I find that yeah if you're experimenting then get digital with a nice time range available
You're gonna have your hands full in a minute learning to dial in different delay times for different feels and different songs, and developing tight rhythm technique to make the delays actually sound good. Having too much else to fiddle with could be distracting.
But the deja vu delay does look really good

Last delay I had was earthquaker dispatch master which had digital delays engineered to be "slightly warmer than Crystal clean".
You wouldn't need the reverb side per se (it's like two pedals in one) but it's a sweet sounding delay with a huge range in time and repeats.


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[Aceman]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Remember - when analog ruled the world, everyone jumped ship to digital. Then, digital ruled the world, and everyone went back to analog. These days, I recommend one of each - they do have their charms.

Still, I think digital is really the more sensible choice all in all. If playing out - no one will notice the difference. If clean warm blues is your bag, maybe get analog. If experimental? Well, digital for the win.

Get a DD-3 and an AD-9 and call us in 6 months.

 

[Highway Chile]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Some digital delays let the analog signal through and only the repeats are digital. In other cases, the signal is converted to digital when the unit is on but not when it is in bypass. I agree with the recommendation to experiment with both types. I use digital for slap back and analog for ambient. Ymmv.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Some digital delays let the analog signal through and only the repeats are digital. In other cases, the signal is converted to digital when the unit is on but not when it is in bypass. I agree with the recommendation to experiment with both types. I use digital for slap back and analog for ambient. Ymmv.

Right. Check the TC specs for the words “analog dry thru” - I believe the Flashback is?

Xandeeno - for a first delay, just to try it out, I would definitely take a look at the Flashback - it’s models are great, a good variety of delays, and it’s just about as simple to use as it can be!


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[PFDarkside]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

I agree on the Flashback. Lots of models, great sound, easy to use.

 

[dave74]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Flashback also has switchable buffer/true-bypass and the kill-dry option for parallel loops, and the toneprint storage.
I like Flashback for the amp's effect-loop application.

For using after mods/dirt and right before the amp, my suggestion would be the Boss DD-7.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

In a digital delay pedal (or any pedal that processes the signal digitally), the analog signal from the guitar is converted to digital (with an ADC = analog to digital converter) for processing and then is converted back to analog (with a DAC = digital to analog converter). So the processed (or unprocessed) signal leaving a digital pedal is again an analog signal. Only the processing of the signal is done digitally. A "normal" guitar amp wouldn't know what to do with a digital signal. And in bypass mode, the pedal passes through the analog signal, unprocessed by the digital delay circuitry.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

As someone who has spent a LOT of time on this I can tell ya for certain that the DD-7 colors your sound no matter what settings you use. It certainly does not simply pass a signal straight through when in use and the delays are at best copies of the original, but already colored, sound. I wouldn't call this a deal breaker nor say it's a crappy pedal by any means. But just be aware of this is all. Personally (and from what I gather and given all of the suggestions on my other thread in reference to this: a decent and transparent delay appears to fall squarely into the "you get what you pay for" category).

 

[Mincer]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

These days, both analog and digital pedals sound great. It depends on what you need. Tap tempo? Digital. True bypass? Either (though you lose the trails when you turn it off- not worth it, to me). Control? Digital. SD has as a few really great delay pedals:
Vapor Trail (analog)
Andromeda (digital)
Dark Sun (digital)

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

I wouldn't worry about 'turning your signal digital'. WTF does that even mean?

Some pedals will slightly change the way your guitar sounds when bypassed. This has nothing to do with being digital, and everything to do with how the bypass works (true bypass, buffered bypass, half-assed bypass), the length of cable you're using, the loading on your pickup, and the amp.

Back to delays . . .

For a single repeat:
A digital delay pedal will record what you play and then spit it back out as many times as you want. The copy goes through an analog-digital conversion and is saved in memory, then it's spit back out. Because AD conversion is very cheap to make high precision/quality, the repeat will contain all the highs that your original signal had. Digital delays will typically have a much longer maximum delay time.

An analog delay pedal will use a chip to make an imperfect copy of your signal. This results in a slight loss of high frequencies, which makes each repeat sound a little darker than the last. Analog pedals will have a much shorter maximum delay time because they run into a limit of how much information can be stored in the chips.


For multiple repeats:
After the first repeat, typically delay pedals feed back the second repeat through the whole system again. So, digital delays will go through DA/AD conversion, and analog delays go through the chip again. For analog pedals this means that things keep getting darker and darker as the repeats go on until it's an unidentifiable mush. For digital delays things get a bit interesting here. If the pedal uses excellent quality conversion, you'll barely be able to notice a difference between the original signal and one that has been delayed 100 times. If the pedal uses crap conversion, after five or six repeats you'll notice that things start to sound odd because of artifacts and errors that accumulate in the sound.

"Bad" digital DA/AD conversion can sound really cool (I had a Boss PS-2 that was a blast to play with because of the lo-fi weirdness you could get going when feeding it back on itself), good digital conversion can make cathedrals of pristine sound, and the imperfect repeats of analog delays can help your original signal cut through and avoid getting lost in the mix. None of these sounds are bad, they're all just different.

 

[Xandeeno]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

Awesome Thanks, that was really helpful

 

[Mincer]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

But it isn't that simple. These days, complex digital delays can replicate the softness and round analog delay tone. They can also replicate things like tape wobble, distortion on the repeats, and oscillation. Digital pedals can have very long delay times, too. In an isolated guitar tone, with a few repeats at less than 300ms, it would be impossible for anyone to guess with absolute certainty if the pedal is analog or a digital pedal emulating an analog one.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

But it isn't that simple. These days, complex digital delays can replicate the softness and round analog delay tone. They can also replicate things like tape wobble, distortion on the repeats, and oscillation. Digital pedals can have very long delay times, too. In an isolated guitar tone, with a few repeats at less than 300ms, it would be impossible for anyone to guess with absolute certainty if the pedal is analog or a digital pedal emulating an analog one.

Yep. Boss has been doing this forever. You just put a low pass filter on a digital delay and BAM . . . you've got analog pedal tone. Throw some flanging in - tape wobble.




My advise is always to plug a couple pedals in, screw around with them in the store for a bit, and then pick the one that sounds best to you. At the end of the day delay is delay.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

My advise is always to plug a couple pedals in, screw around with them in the store for a bit, and then pick the one that sounds best to you. At the end of the day delay is delay.

Not a delay fan then?

I personally can’t stand perfect copies in repeats. Darker and darker is good, brighter and brighter is good, modulation, degradation, anything but a pristine repeat.

I am an analog snob, they DO sound better to me... but digital simulations are so good that the difference is nearly negligible solo and not apparent with a band.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Digital Delay Questions

I like the choice for perfect repeats or not- great for looping. I also like the expression pedal control that many digital pedals allow.