Digital transistor amps. modelling amps not really solid state ??

[Rex_Rocker]

50W and below: Line 6 DT50 (still the honeymoon period? ...can't say...), AMT Stonehead & Cicognani Brutus Live

Well, the DT50 is essentially a POD HD with a tube poweramp, LOL. So not far off from what I was arguing could keep up with the big boys. I take it you just don't like the Axe FX?

I did have a POD HD at one point. Cool platform for sure, but they definitely shot themselves in the foot by not including IR capabilities when everything else it was competing against at the time was able to load IR's. But that's not really a problem when you're running it through a tube poweramp a good cab.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Well, the DT50 is essentially a POD HD with a tube poweramp, LOL. So not far off from what I was arguing could keep up with the big boys. I take it you just don't like the Axe FX?

Yep, but there are a couple of preamp tubes (12Ax7's) involved in some way as well, I think as buffer & PI tubes respectively. And using a 12AX7 as a buffer probably means a lot of the preamp gain is coming from a tube as well..

And yeah, def not a fan of the Axe FX II. Every band I've ever heard use them 'live' has sounded anemic as well ..especially if they're following a band that just played their set w/ tube amps.

You're like...eh? what happened to the sound???? :lmao:

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yep, but there are a couple of preamp tubes (12Ax7's) involved in some way as well, I think as buffer & PI tubes respectively. And using a 12AX7 as a buffer probably means a lot of the preamp gain is coming from a tube as well..

And yeah, def not a fan of the Axe FX II. Every band I've ever heard use them 'live' has sounded anemic as well ..especially if they're following a band that just played their set w/ tube amps.

You're like...eh? what happened to the sound????

Ah, I didn't know it had a tube input buffer.

I doubt much of the distortion is coming from that tube, but I bet it definitely adds to the feel. If it distorts a lot, it's probably not a good buffer, LOL, and they'd call it something else like "gain stage".

TBH, I'm more of a "my priority is how something sounds recorded" kinda guy. I love music production, although it's been a while since I actually recorded anything. I always found a good recorded sound makes a good in the room sound. I haven't always found that works the other way around.

 

[jeremy]

yeah, i would assume very little if any distortion is coming from a buffer tube. i do play on recordings, but im basically concerned with how something sounds live with a band in a venue. luckily there are lots of toys out there for all our different needs

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I find that if something records well, then it sounds killer blasting through a PA as well. Not reason it shouldn't. People blast recorded music through PA's all the time.

Unless you're playing unmic'd gigs all the time. But in my experience, the only unmic'd gigs I've played have been either like tiny bar gigs or really poor venue gigs.

The last show I played was a Punk Rock show in a pretty crappy venue, so you can imagine how the situation was there. Over there, like 70% of us who played there used some sort of modeler into the FX return of whatever crappy solid state half stack they had in there.

That's the other thing... I guess it depends on the scene you're playing in. But it's much easier to carry a modeler and your guitar on a gig bag on the train than to lug around a half-stack or a 2x12 tube combo.

 

[jeremy]

i pretty much drive my car to every gig. the train situation is not workable for gigs most of the time, i could take the bus, but its easier to drive for sure. i play unmic'd at least once a week on average, small clubs with just the vocals and maybe kick and overhead drum mic going through the pa. but im playing blues/rock, not metal.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

yeah, i would assume very little if any distortion is coming from a buffer tube. i do play on recordings, but im basically concerned with how something sounds live with a band in a venue. luckily there are lots of toys out there for all our different needs

Maybe it doesn't "add distortion" per say (and then again, maybe it does...who knows?) but it definitely affects the overall feel, character & response, things like edge, dynamics, depth (3D-ness), touch sensitivity etc.

My Randall T2 has a Buffer tube too (12AT7) and finding the right tube for that spot (and the PI) is crucial to how that amp feels & responds.. I have an NOS CV4024 Mullard in there right now that I paid a pretty penny for....and it's well well worth it.

 

[Mincer]

I find that if something records well, then it sounds killer blasting through a PA as well. Not reason it shouldn't. People blast recorded music through PA's all the time.

Unless you're playing unmic'd gigs all the time. But in my experience, the only unmic'd gigs I've played have been either like tiny bar gigs or really poor venue gigs.

The last show I played was a Punk Rock show in a pretty crappy venue, so you can imagine how the situation was there. Over there, like 70% of us who played there used some sort of modeler into the FX return of whatever crappy solid state half stack they had in there.

That's the other thing... I guess it depends on the scene you're playing in. But it's much easier to carry a modeler and your guitar on a gig bag on the train than to lug around a half-stack or a 2x12 tube combo.

I use my Tone Master Deluxe into the PA. Sounds fantastic.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I use my Tone Master Deluxe into the PA. Sounds fantastic.

I'd love for them to make a more budget version kina like the HX Stomp. The clips I've heard of it make it seem like it's one of the better 5150III sims which is one of my tube amps of choice and the HX Stomp doesn't have a one.

 

[Mincer]

I'd love for them to make a more budget version kina like the HX Stomp. The clips I've heard of it make it seem like it's one of the better 5150III sims which is one of my tube amps of choice and the HX Stomp doesn't have a one.

Well, they have the Very Expensive Tone Master pedal, but I'd think that tech would trickle down into smaller and cheaper options. The great thing about the TM Deluxe is that it is only modeling one amp, so it is a different kind of product than a pedal that lets you select different amps. I am interested in the Tone Master powered fr/fr cabinets for my Fractal, though.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Well, they have the Very Expensive Tone Master pedal, but I'd think that tech would trickle down into smaller and cheaper options. The great thing about the TM Deluxe is that it is only modeling one amp, so it is a different kind of product than a pedal that lets you select different amps. I am interested in the Tone Master powered fr/fr cabinets for my Fractal, though.

Oh, I thought you meant you had the peadlboard processor thing. My bad.

I'm not in love with the FR/FR speakers as a mean to amplify modelers, personally. I'd rather have a poweramp and a bigger guitar cab, and then run another output with the cab sim to front of house.

 

[Mincer]

The problem with using a regular guitar cab is that it only works if your entire set is modeling an amp that would use that particular cab with those speakers. A Twin Reverb or Deluxe model wouldn't sound so good going through a 4x12 with a closed back.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

The problem with using a regular guitar cab is that it only works if your entire set is modeling an amp that would use that particular cab with those speakers. A Twin Reverb or Deluxe model wouldn't sound so good going through a 4x12 with a closed back.

True. And the front of house sound won't be the same as the one you're hearing yourself through. I've got to try one of the good ones, honestly. I guess I'm just visually turned off by the fact that most of the guitar-oriented ones look like 1x12 combos, LOL, but I admit that's pretty irrational and could get over it if the sound is really good.

 

[Mincer]

True. And the front of house sound won't be the same as the one you're hearing yourself through. I've got to try one of the good ones, honestly. I guess I'm just visually turned off by the fact that most of the guitar-oriented ones look like 1x12 combos, LOL, but I admit that's pretty irrational and could get over it if the sound is really good.

I am sure some company has put some kind of coaxial speaker/horn FR array in a 4x12 cab. Get something like a PowerStage and you are set.

 

[Hiwatts and Gibsons]

A modeling amp can either be SS or it can be a hybrid. In the case of the former it is a digital preamp paired with an SS power amp. In the latter case it is a digital preamp paired with a tube power amp like the Line 6 Spider Valve.

 

[Jacew]

'Solid state' with regards to amps is just a term that denotes that the circuit in the amp doesn't pass through a vacuum (tube). If your amp doesn't use tubes to pass the electrical signal through, it's solid state.

'Digial' vs 'analog' is talking about the way the audio signal is treated. With analog you have a continuous wave, with digital it is broken up into discrete steps (often for processing):

There are fully analog solid state amps (if people are being lazy, this is often what they mean when they're talking about a solid state guitar amp). There are solid state amps that are fully digital (again, if people are being lazy this is often what they mean when talking about a digital guitar amp). The Tonemaster amps are solid state digital amps - they use microprocessors and digital processing to modify your guitar signal to sound like Fender amps that are modelled and the electrical signal doesn't go through tubes.

This example isn't actually quite true. Digital audio is processed as a discrete steps, but the way the function works means that the analog output wave should be equal to analog input wave as long as the sampling rate is twice the cut-out frequency. Hence 44,1 khz produces perfect audio wave below 22 khz.

This is known as the Nyquist-Shannon theorem, that's basis of digital sound.

 

[GuitarStv]

This example isn't actually quite true. Digital audio is processed as a discrete steps, but the way the function works means that the analog output wave should be equal to analog input wave as long as the sampling rate is twice the cut-out frequency. Hence 44,1 khz produces perfect audio wave below 22 khz.

This is known as the Nyquist-Shannon theorem, that's basis of digital sound.

Respectfully, I think you're a bit confused on this. The Whittaker–Nyquist–Shannon theorem (or cardinal theorem of interpolation) is used to theorize what digital sampling rate should be used to avoid creating audible aliasing defects in the final reconstructed sound. It does not render an equal output wave. It doesn't smooth anything. It definitely doesn't ensure the output wave is equal to the input wave. Digital sampling isn't smooth - zoom in at a fine enough resolution and you will always see the notches.

 

[Seashore]

Seems like a good spot to share this video about digital audio again. 12 years young. Don't confuse a graphic representation of the waveform on your computer for the waveform itself.

 

[Jacew]

Respectfully, I think you're a bit confused on this. The Whittaker–Nyquist–Shannon theorem (or cardinal theorem of interpolation) is used to theorize what digital sampling rate should be used to avoid creating audible aliasing defects in the final reconstructed sound. It does not render an equal output wave. It doesn't smooth anything. It definitely doesn't ensure the output wave is equal to the input wave. Digital sampling isn't smooth - zoom in at a fine enough resolution and you will always see the notches.

Yes, I'm sure you know this better than me, but essentially that is exactly what my point was. I was just putting it into laymans terms:

"is used to theorize what digital sampling rate should be used to avoid creating audible aliasing defects in the final reconstructed sound."
Which is double the cut-off frequency plus a bit extra to allow the slope of high-pass filter.

"It doesn't smooth anything. It definitely doesn't ensure the output wave is equal to the input wave. Digital sampling isn't smooth - zoom in at a fine enough resolution and you will always see the notches."
Digital sampling of course is that coarse wave drawn, but that kind of a blocky waveform is impossible to produce physically. Resulting output wave is always smoothened out by physical limitations DA conversion, and that circles back to the point earlier about suitable sampling frequency for creating that wave.

Of course bit depht is other matter and defines resolution with which the analog wave is recreated.

 

[Artie]

They say, a picture's worth a thousand words. This is basically how my Alchemist and Spidervalve are configured. The Alchemist is all tube , except for the digital signal processing for delay and reverb. Both, are all tube Bogner output sections.