Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

[mojosman]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Yes, and there are many many threads about this. To summarize: most people outside of the company that owns the trademark, are upset about this, but that's how trademark laws work.

You are correct, folks on the wrong side of trademark protection often feel it's unfair, in so much as it affects their ability to make a buck. In this instance, it just seems so obscure of a concept to trademark. Imagine if the first guy to put chrome wheel covers on a car did this? Classic cars would have looked a heck of a lost different if they all had painted wheel covers.

I think 99% of guys buy aftermarket pickups for reasons involving a tone change they are seeking. The aesthetics are important, but regardless of how cool looking a given pickup is; if it sucks in terms of tone, you won't want to own it. At least not on a guitar you actually play, maybe a wall hanger. If Duncan, DiMarzio, or any other winder makes substandard pickups they will eventually cease to exist in the industry. If anyone ceases double cream humbucker production, clearly they still survive. I'm not sure what DiMarzio thought was to their advantage to make the effort fight this fight. Their image has to be about quality and performance, because that's what sells. I guess the landscape was different back when you had very limited choices and they probably had massive market share. I would say today that they have less dominance in the marketplace, but the market seems much bigger as I think more people are buying aftermarket pickups at this point, or it seems that way anyway.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Gibson DID create the look. Not deliberately, not through their own original setup, but the definition of creating a look doesn't exclude or preclude accident in the slightest. But the doublecream idea came from Larry's own 59 that had a doublecream PAF. Hence for the purposes of this argument it is Gibson's idea in every way it counts, as Larry merely copied something already in existence.

Yes and no. The first pickup Larry and Steve made was the Super Distortion/Dual Sound. A customer asked for the double cream so they had to make the bobbins from pickguard material. There’s an interview with Steve Blucher where he talks about this.

The 20th Anniversary PAF is the pickup copied from Larry’s ‘59 LP. I doubt he owned that as a teenager when he started the company in his basement in 1971.

Ok, obviously these are copies of the Gibson humbucker designed by Seth Lover, at least in form factor. But Gibson never sold exposed, double cream pickups. And the double off white pickups that turn up from time to time were happenstance. So they never claimed that as a feature any more then what’s inside of the pots!

So, inspired by some random PAFs, and then adopted as a trademark for the look of all the DiMarzio pickups at that time. Including Strat, P and J and the Model G bass pickups.

But I agree that at this time they should abandon the trademark since they state on their website, that their standard color is black.

Someone would need to challenge that in court.


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[Silence Kid]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

It isn't purely looks, it's marketing; Dimarzio's idea was you hear some awesome guitarist, see a white pickup (I still do not really get how cream and white are different though,) and automatically say "hey, that's a dimarzio."

They basically claim their logo is a big white (ok, "cream") blob on top of each pickup.

It would make more practical sense if all their pickups were white/cream.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Yes and no. The first pickup Larry and Steve made was the Super Distortion/Dual Sound. A customer asked for the double cream so they had to make the bobbins from pickguard material. There’s an interview with Steve Blucher where he talks about this.

The 20th Anniversary PAF is the pickup copied from Larry’s ‘59 LP. I doubt he owned that as a teenager when he started the company in his basement in 1971.

Ok, obviously these are copies of the Gibson humbucker designed by Seth Lover, at least in form factor. But Gibson never sold exposed, double cream pickups. And the double off white pickups that turn up from time to time were happenstance. So they never claimed that as a feature any more then what’s inside of the pots!

So, inspired by some random PAFs, and then adopted as a trademark for the look of all the DiMarzio pickups at that time. Including Strat, P and J and the Model G bass pickups.

But I agree that at this time they should abandon the trademark since they state on their website, that their standard color is black.

Someone would need to challenge that in court.


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You certainly have a point there, but in the late 60's/early 70's even struggling musos could afford bursts.....they were a guitar unwanted and cheaper than a new guitar.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Trust me, Larry is keeping that trademark and renewing it. I just read thru the legal BS and its going to stay that way. Dewshery

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

You certainly have a point there, but in the late 60's/early 70's even struggling musos could afford bursts.....they were a guitar unwanted and cheaper than a new guitar.

True, it was just a used guitar. Not necessarily unwanted. But not as pricy as now.


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[Discharged]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

The DMZ trademark prevents American p'up makers ONLY.

You can buy double-creme p'ups made anywhere else in the world but the US.

/Peter

 

[metlking]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

The DMZ trademark prevents American p'up makers ONLY.

You can buy double-creme p'ups made anywhere else in the world but the US.

/Peter

Yep, I have pickups in double crème made by Bare Knuckle and Sigil (Canada) that are far superior to anything Larry makes!

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Dimarzio owns the double cream humbucker concept?

Yep, I have pickups in double crème made by Bare Knuckle and Sigil (Canada) that are far superior to anything Larry makes!

Larry isn’t at DiMarzio any more. His daughter is CEO.

But they make a LOT of different pickups. And lots of pickups for Ibanez and Ernie Ball (all the EB pickups except the basses). So it’s unlikely *every* Bare Knuckle pickup is better than every DMZ. Lol. And saying something is “superior” is subjective. I’m sure everybody will find a pickup they love/hate from every maker. And DiMarzio pretty much started the aftermarket pickup business along with Bartolini and Lawrence.


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