Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
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Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
some guitars did really suck. but some were just sheer awesomeness and its a shame they are discontinued. I know of at least one gibson LP model that would sell like hot cakes. the ace frehley-model; sunburst LP custom with 3 superdistortions and lightningbolt inlay. why oh WHY did they discontinue that one?! that guitar kicked ass like crazy and sold equally so.
some guitars did really suck. but some were just sheer awesomeness and its a shame they are discontinued. I know of at least one gibson LP model that would sell like hot cakes. the ace frehley-model; sunburst LP custom with 3 superdistortions and lightningbolt inlay. why oh WHY did they discontinue that one?! that guitar kicked ass like crazy and sold equally so.
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
It seems like every other thread on the SDUGF right now is obvious trolling.
It seems like every other thread on the SDUGF right now is obvious trolling.
GoldenVulture
Braindeadologist
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
I can't recall doing so, but I'm getting old and my memory is getting bad.
Refresh me, if you could?:14:
I can't recall doing so, but I'm getting old and my memory is getting bad.
Refresh me, if you could?:14:
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
+1. Most of my guitars are limited editions or out-of-production. I don't really care why, I just like those models, and was motivated to get them because I know they'll get harder to find in the future. I think it's great for manufacturers to offer a lot of versions, models, options, and finishes. I don't like the one-size-fits-all approach. It really doesn't cost a guitar maker much more to change use a different color stain or different PU's or hardware. I think it increases sales. Over the past 10 years, Gibson and Epiphone have introduced dozens of variations in their line. Keeps people interested. Who cares if a certain model was in production for one year or 20 years?
Don't forget about '58 Bursts too. :14:
+1. Most of my guitars are limited editions or out-of-production. I don't really care why, I just like those models, and was motivated to get them because I know they'll get harder to find in the future. I think it's great for manufacturers to offer a lot of versions, models, options, and finishes. I don't like the one-size-fits-all approach. It really doesn't cost a guitar maker much more to change use a different color stain or different PU's or hardware. I think it increases sales. Over the past 10 years, Gibson and Epiphone have introduced dozens of variations in their line. Keeps people interested. Who cares if a certain model was in production for one year or 20 years?
Don't forget about '58 Bursts too. :14:
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
I just can't see guys behind counters in music stores of the future having to pull out massive folders to look up endless short-term, limited-run models from the past (meaning this era) that varied only in minor ways from many other editions when trying to establish a value, trying to determine which of the plethora of listings were supposedly the good ones and which ones, even though similar, were not regarded as being so good.
So yeah, the variety is good in the present for the consumer, but will probably guarantee that almost all but a few will achieve much in the way of high value the way the instruments of the '50s and '60s have (back then, if you bought a Strat, LP or whatever, there was one series and about the only option would be fretboard wood and body colour for a given model).
I just can't see guys behind counters in music stores of the future having to pull out massive folders to look up endless short-term, limited-run models from the past (meaning this era) that varied only in minor ways from many other editions when trying to establish a value, trying to determine which of the plethora of listings were supposedly the good ones and which ones, even though similar, were not regarded as being so good.
So yeah, the variety is good in the present for the consumer, but will probably guarantee that almost all but a few will achieve much in the way of high value the way the instruments of the '50s and '60s have (back then, if you bought a Strat, LP or whatever, there was one series and about the only option would be fretboard wood and body colour for a given model).
brunogio
New member
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
Honestly I sometimes feel that these guitars when used give you an excellent value, especially if the guitar is well made.
I have a few discontinued Washburns that I love. High quality instruments that just didn't take off or in one case lost their endorser. Doesn't make them bad, they just didn't sell well enough or earn enough profit to warrant the company to keep producing them.
Honestly I sometimes feel that these guitars when used give you an excellent value, especially if the guitar is well made.
I have a few discontinued Washburns that I love. High quality instruments that just didn't take off or in one case lost their endorser. Doesn't make them bad, they just didn't sell well enough or earn enough profit to warrant the company to keep producing them.
DoronEsh
New member
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
+1,111,111,111,111 !!!!!!!!!!!
Or, in other words: because most of the time, CEO's don't give sh!t about instrument quality, and don't have patience. They just want cash flowing into their bank accounts. Sometimes a model needs some time to "sip into" the scene and become the "holy grail". That's when a reissue is in order. Then comes the "re-reissue" model, then the "special re-reissue" model, then the "artist re-reissue" model, and the road goes on forever ...
+1,111,111,111,111 !!!!!!!!!!!
Or, in other words: because most of the time, CEO's don't give sh!t about instrument quality, and don't have patience. They just want cash flowing into their bank accounts. Sometimes a model needs some time to "sip into" the scene and become the "holy grail". That's when a reissue is in order. Then comes the "re-reissue" model, then the "special re-reissue" model, then the "artist re-reissue" model, and the road goes on forever ...
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
I don't think 'guys behind counters in music stores of the future' are going to spend much timing pricing used guitars, regardless of how many models there are, or aren't. They're just going to low ball people anyways, like they always do. I hope no one's losing sleep over this.
The days of the 1950's/1960's high-value guitars are long over, not going to happen again. No reason to bemoan that. Times change. There was a one-time combination of factors as to why it did happen (post-war industrial boom, new technology in (newly invented) electric guitars, the fact that they were used by certain players during an explosion of musical creativity, Japanese collectors with surplus cash buying them up, etc). You're not going to see today's models go for $300,000. There are so many guitars, made all over the world; that will prevent a feeding frenzy that could drive them that high. Look at many guitars were made in the 1950's, versus how many millions are made now. Scarcity drives up market value, and mass production drives it down. Other than guitars that belonged to someone famous, there's so many available today, no one's going to pay an extra $100,000 for a model in a different color or with different hardware than it normally was made with. Plus, big dollars draw big fakes, and these days there are many people worldwide that are talented enough to make excellent fakes, that fear of getting ripped off will also keep prices reasonable. Geez, these days there's counterfeits being made of Korean/Chinese Epiphones! You really think that for any current guitar that could eventually hit 6 figures, that the market won't be deluged with convincing fakes? There's no way to guess what the most valuable ones will be: who thought that LP Bursts would have sold for 10 times what 1950's Strats did? Or that Bursts would be worth far more than '52 Gold Tops? How do guess what the future holds and what people's tastes will be? You'll drive yourself crazy.
So, step forward into the marketplace and revel in the huge number of choices you have, and don't waste your time worrying about what any of it's going to be worth in 50 years. Enjoy what you have now and play the hell out of 'em.
I don't think 'guys behind counters in music stores of the future' are going to spend much timing pricing used guitars, regardless of how many models there are, or aren't. They're just going to low ball people anyways, like they always do. I hope no one's losing sleep over this.
The days of the 1950's/1960's high-value guitars are long over, not going to happen again. No reason to bemoan that. Times change. There was a one-time combination of factors as to why it did happen (post-war industrial boom, new technology in (newly invented) electric guitars, the fact that they were used by certain players during an explosion of musical creativity, Japanese collectors with surplus cash buying them up, etc). You're not going to see today's models go for $300,000. There are so many guitars, made all over the world; that will prevent a feeding frenzy that could drive them that high. Look at many guitars were made in the 1950's, versus how many millions are made now. Scarcity drives up market value, and mass production drives it down. Other than guitars that belonged to someone famous, there's so many available today, no one's going to pay an extra $100,000 for a model in a different color or with different hardware than it normally was made with. Plus, big dollars draw big fakes, and these days there are many people worldwide that are talented enough to make excellent fakes, that fear of getting ripped off will also keep prices reasonable. Geez, these days there's counterfeits being made of Korean/Chinese Epiphones! You really think that for any current guitar that could eventually hit 6 figures, that the market won't be deluged with convincing fakes? There's no way to guess what the most valuable ones will be: who thought that LP Bursts would have sold for 10 times what 1950's Strats did? Or that Bursts would be worth far more than '52 Gold Tops? How do guess what the future holds and what people's tastes will be? You'll drive yourself crazy.
So, step forward into the marketplace and revel in the huge number of choices you have, and don't waste your time worrying about what any of it's going to be worth in 50 years. Enjoy what you have now and play the hell out of 'em.
J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
I'm completely with Blue on this one. The only thing "discontinued" means to me is that I won't expect to find new ones in stores. If it was something I really liked, maybe I'll keep my eyes open for a used one -- I'll always look at an old Japanese Ibanez or Kramer, for example, just to see the model number, features, condition, and what they're asking for it. Fact is, there are more than enough new and used guitars at any one moment to keep me happy at least until the end of time, if not longer.
I don't believe there's any correlation between quality and whether a guitar is still in production or has been discontinued. I think profitable models get discontinued all the time, simply because sales are low and that profit is on a relatively small number of units. A big company may not want to keep parts around for something they don't build often, or they might want to eliminate a slow seller to put the marketing focus on something that could absorb those sales and then some. Sometimes more models leads to customer confusion, or at least indecision, and that can cost sales.
All in all, I don't care enough to think about it much.
I'm completely with Blue on this one. The only thing "discontinued" means to me is that I won't expect to find new ones in stores. If it was something I really liked, maybe I'll keep my eyes open for a used one -- I'll always look at an old Japanese Ibanez or Kramer, for example, just to see the model number, features, condition, and what they're asking for it. Fact is, there are more than enough new and used guitars at any one moment to keep me happy at least until the end of time, if not longer.
I don't believe there's any correlation between quality and whether a guitar is still in production or has been discontinued. I think profitable models get discontinued all the time, simply because sales are low and that profit is on a relatively small number of units. A big company may not want to keep parts around for something they don't build often, or they might want to eliminate a slow seller to put the marketing focus on something that could absorb those sales and then some. Sometimes more models leads to customer confusion, or at least indecision, and that can cost sales.
All in all, I don't care enough to think about it much.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
Absolutely. God only knows why some models are regular production, and others aren't. The guys making decisions don't always make sense, even from a business perspective. Example: I picked up one of the limited edition Epiphone SG Customs that were made a few years ago: alpine white with a maestro vibrola, which is so much better looking than the production SG Custom (pale mustard yellow with a stop bar). When the alpine models were just coming out and still scarce, they were in such high demand that used ones were selling for $200 more than a new one! How often do you see a current production, used, unmodded Epi go for 40% over store retail? And of course, which SGC did they decide to keep going forward? The boring yellow one! No one's fighting over those, and sales can't be that good. Who was the genius behind that decision?
The fact that LP's were discontinued in 1960 is proof that the models manufacturers make and discontinue can have little to do with logic or common sense. You certainly can't read anything into their decisions. Don't assume that they know what the public wants. Egos in upper management are a big part of this. Some companies might be better off tossing a coin when selecting their product line.
Absolutely. God only knows why some models are regular production, and others aren't. The guys making decisions don't always make sense, even from a business perspective. Example: I picked up one of the limited edition Epiphone SG Customs that were made a few years ago: alpine white with a maestro vibrola, which is so much better looking than the production SG Custom (pale mustard yellow with a stop bar). When the alpine models were just coming out and still scarce, they were in such high demand that used ones were selling for $200 more than a new one! How often do you see a current production, used, unmodded Epi go for 40% over store retail? And of course, which SGC did they decide to keep going forward? The boring yellow one! No one's fighting over those, and sales can't be that good. Who was the genius behind that decision?
The fact that LP's were discontinued in 1960 is proof that the models manufacturers make and discontinue can have little to do with logic or common sense. You certainly can't read anything into their decisions. Don't assume that they know what the public wants. Egos in upper management are a big part of this. Some companies might be better off tossing a coin when selecting their product line.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
Never seen one of those Epi's. When did they make them? What's the model name?
Lawsuits help sometimes too.
Never seen one of those Epi's. When did they make them? What's the model name?
Diego
New member
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
My #1 is a SZ320. A truly fantastic guitar.
It was mass-produced, but I do feel something when I think it's being made no more.
I'll definitely keep an eye on the used market here, I'd like a SZ520 as well.
And a SZ2020 Prestige. But chances are I'll never even see one of those.
My #1 is a SZ320. A truly fantastic guitar.
It was mass-produced, but I do feel something when I think it's being made no more.
I'll definitely keep an eye on the used market here, I'd like a SZ520 as well.
And a SZ2020 Prestige. But chances are I'll never even see one of those.
lex666
New member
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
+ 1
PRS isn't my cup of coffee, but for some reason I like that Epi. Is that neck thru body?
+ 1
PRS isn't my cup of coffee, but for some reason I like that Epi. Is that neck thru body?
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
That's the Epiphone Spotlight, I believe they were from 1988-1989.
That's the Epiphone Spotlight, I believe they were from 1988-1989.
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
So the lawyers squashed that one? Too bad. Nice looking guitar. Kind of strange, since PRS has copied from Gibson so blatantly. Kind of hypocritical.
So the lawyers squashed that one? Too bad. Nice looking guitar. Kind of strange, since PRS has copied from Gibson so blatantly. Kind of hypocritical.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
Fender Cyclone here, last one in the warehouse according to the seller (doubt it) and in Car. Metallic.
How do I feel about it? I wanted it, it was still available, it's mine. I love it. Why shouldn't I, it had everything anyone could ever want as long as you wanted a short scale fender that didn't have a student scale and it has a vibrato and HS setup.
In short, love and confusion as to why they nixed that over 20 variations of the telecaster and 60 of the strat. As soon as they announced the Squier VM Fender Mustang I picked one up. 300 compared to the 900 the Fender version costs tells me this will be their next 51. An inexpensive instrument that sounds good and that modders will love but Fender will kill as soon as they feel it threatens the least selling of one of their own clones.
Fender Cyclone here, last one in the warehouse according to the seller (doubt it) and in Car. Metallic.
How do I feel about it? I wanted it, it was still available, it's mine. I love it. Why shouldn't I, it had everything anyone could ever want as long as you wanted a short scale fender that didn't have a student scale and it has a vibrato and HS setup.
In short, love and confusion as to why they nixed that over 20 variations of the telecaster and 60 of the strat. As soon as they announced the Squier VM Fender Mustang I picked one up. 300 compared to the 900 the Fender version costs tells me this will be their next 51. An inexpensive instrument that sounds good and that modders will love but Fender will kill as soon as they feel it threatens the least selling of one of their own clones.
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blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Discontinued guitars:How to feel about them?
+1. We'd like to assume that there are very knowledgeable people making astute decsions on which models to produce, but judging by what they come up with, it doesn't always seem to work out that way. I think they can get an ivory tower mindset and gradually get out-of-touch with players. I think the best thing any manufacturer can do is get constant feedback from players (customers and potential customers). It doesn't matter what the company executives want or like, their not buying guitars.
+1. We'd like to assume that there are very knowledgeable people making astute decsions on which models to produce, but judging by what they come up with, it doesn't always seem to work out that way. I think they can get an ivory tower mindset and gradually get out-of-touch with players. I think the best thing any manufacturer can do is get constant feedback from players (customers and potential customers). It doesn't matter what the company executives want or like, their not buying guitars.