distortion from a Tube or From a box

Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

I think tube amps sound better than solid state (for the types of music I like to listen to and play)... period. So that's where I'm coming from.

However, I think there's a point of diminishing returns with regard to tube sound. Beyond a certain amount to gain, more tubes don't make much of an improvement. "Mostly tube" is darned close to "all tube", and the convenience of pedals far outweighs the fact that they are solid state. I'd rather add a few SS stompboxes to a simple, single-channel tube amp that invest a ton of cash in a space-shuttle-complicated multi-channel monster amp.

What I want to know is, who was chasing the OP? Perhaps Rid, wanting to whack him over the head with a Plexitone?
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

I think alot of pedals sounds alot better with tube amps as generally they are made for tube amps and something like a ds-1 or a ts-9 just doesnt cut it with most solid state clean amps.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

jeremy said:
id love to hear one of those. really.

pedals have their place for sure with tube or ss amps. personally ive never heard a pedal sound as good as a great amp at the sweet spot but its not always practical due to volume and/or size/weight contraints. if i could have a super reverb for clean sounds, a deluxe reverb for medium dirty tones and a hot rodded marshall for distorted tones i wouldnt ever need a dirt pedal but thats not practical in 99.9% of the situations people are in.
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I don't mean using a pedal in place of a tube amp, just in front of a clean one. That keeps all the dynamics in the power section, and the sweet spot of saturation in the power amp section. What it's basically replacing is the distortion in the preamp section, which is never that special in tube amps anyways. If you play at low volumes and crank up the gain, for instance, that's basically what the preamp section sounds like. It can be good, but it's never anything that amazing, even on a nice Marshall. The power amp section is the primary reason we all like tube amps, and that still reaches saturation with a pedal in front of a tube amp.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

i very much disagree. i think a modest amount of preamp tube distortion into a pumping power section sounds much better than a pedal into a clean preamp into that same power section. i even think that a good pure tube path sounds better than a pedal juicing an already mildly pushed preamp into a hardworking powersection. the problem comes when you are trying to get that sound without the power amp working, it falls about and can sound flat.

im not saying that there isnt a pedal that sounds better than a pushed tube, ive just never heard it. i use pedals and have a big collection of them but nothing sounds (on stage or in the audience) or feels as good as getting the goods from the amp. my gf is a total non-musician but shes been to more shows over the past 8 years than i can count and she can tell as soon as i step on a pedal, doesnt matter if its a timmy, deathrattle, barber, klon, analogman, keeley, duncan, whatever, as soon as i hit the pedal she makes a face. ive gone back and listened to recordings at her request and the amp sounds better.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

hanumanlangur said:
I don't mean using a pedal in place of a tube amp, just in front of a clean one. That keeps all the dynamics in the power section, and the sweet spot of saturation in the power amp section. What it's basically replacing is the distortion in the preamp section, which is never that special in tube amps anyways. If you play at low volumes and crank up the gain, for instance, that's basically what the preamp section sounds like. It can be good, but it's never anything that amazing, even on a nice Marshall. The power amp section is the primary reason we all like tube amps, and that still reaches saturation with a pedal in front of a tube amp.
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With the amp set clean and using a pedal, you're only either introducing distortion before the preamp, or pushing the preamp tubes with a high level, but that won't cause the power amp to break up...the power section won't give up the goods till you feed around half or more of the available volts to the power tubes.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

Thunder7 said:
Meh, whatever sounds good
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i totally agree, whatever works best for you and what you think sounds best is path you should take. i would love to have some one introduce me to a pedal that sounds as good as a great tube amp, ive just never heard one.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

My favorite tone is my Super cranked up full tilt, with my modded DS-1 in front boosting the lows and adding a bit of dirt. That is the most dynamic, responsive setup I've ever used, and sounds better to me than anything else I've ever heard.

It's a little different, though, as I did some really weird stuff to that pedal, and it does not act like a traditional distortion. More like a not-that-clean bass and volume boost.

From what I've heard him say over the years, it strikes me as a setup that a dude like Jeremy would enjoy.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

ratherdashing said:
The dozens of legendary guitarists who have recorded hundreds of classic songs with pedals in front of tube amps disagree with you.
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WHAT THE FU.... 29 replies, oh gosh

well now is time to explain, I shouldnt post this within the previous circumstances, but well now you would have the truth.

People that use a tube amp and get distortion from a box ARE NOT SICK, is just a way to put it, the main diference (to my ears) of a tube amp and a SS is the cuality of distortion, the distortion coming from a tube is more warm and musical, there are little SS that sound as good. The other diferences doesnt come from if is a tube ammp or a solid state, it relates with the model an the brand.

so many people (too many people) worship the tubes, that does not mean that they belive that a tube is making you a better guitarist, but they found their sound unique. As I said the huge difference is the overdrive/distortion, If you are not using It you are wasting your time and money, you can have a similar sound with a SS and enjoy the ventages of a SS.

the other thing that is diferent is the loudness of tube amps, but if you are going to play under roof you dont need that extra kick.

In other words I want to destroy the worship of tubes, make the comparation of tube and SS more objetive and show to a lot of people that are new in the guitar gear world that they doesnt NEED the tubes, a tube is not a reason by itself. The tube adoration trauma is common in ( i think ) all of us (me included).

If you are getting the distortion from a box thats one big reason to cuestion the reason of atube amp. I am agree that the reaction of a tube amp to a pedal can be diferent (with some pedals there is just a subtle difference and others seems to have been built to work with tubes) but that is not enough
reason to have a tube amp.


And regarding the guitar heros that disagree with me, I just have to say that I does not care, they are just people, they can be wrong. And they are rock stars they have their own "diva tastes" (no offence)

To conclude I say again that the diference in clean chanel (the chanel you are using if you are getting the distortion from a box and not just using it for a boost) does not depends is is a tube amp or a SS, depends on the model.

PD I was being chased by a legion of chilean guitarist that wnt ro kill me because of four things:
1.- I think Tube amps are not god
2.- I think Marshalls are over rated (still very good tough)
3.- I dont like at all Line 6 modellers
4.- I show them their snoby G.A.S actitude

no thats a joke, I was chased by my girlfriend (fot reasons that im not going to say here
 
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Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

I'm always messing with the parameters. At different times, I like varying blends of solid state pedal distortion, preamp toob distortion, output toob distortion (a truly unique sound), and speaker breakup. I don't have a way of measuring each specifically, but I just make adjustments until it sounds right. For heavily distorted, palm muted rhythms, solid state pedals are the most consistent.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

JB_From_Hell said:
My favorite tone is my Super cranked up full tilt, with my modded DS-1 in front boosting the lows and adding a bit of dirt. That is the most dynamic, responsive setup I've ever used, and sounds better to me than anything else I've ever heard.

It's a little different, though, as I did some really weird stuff to that pedal, and it does not act like a traditional distortion. More like a not-that-clean bass and volume boost.

From what I've heard him say over the years, it strikes me as a setup that a dude like Jeremy would enjoy.
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so, ya know, let me play with it yo!
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

jeremy said:
id love to hear one of those. really.

pedals have their place for sure with tube or ss amps. personally ive never heard a pedal sound as good as a great amp at the sweet spot but its not always practical due to volume and/or size/weight contraints. if i could have a super reverb for clean sounds, a deluxe reverb for medium dirty tones and a hot rodded marshall for distorted tones i wouldnt ever need a dirt pedal but thats not practical in 99.9% of the situations people are in.
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I agree.

I tend to think that most of the guys who claim there's nothing special about tubes have never owned a truly great tube amp that was set up to work perfectly and so they're not speaking from actual experience. Instead, they're theorizing based on very limited experience. By "truly great tube amp", I'm not talking about a Sovtek or some kind of Crate, BTW. I'm talking about a truly classic and great amp: 50's or 60's Fender, Marshall, Vox, etc., or one of the great modern tubes amps: Mesa, Matchless, Bogner, etc.
Lew
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

Lewguitar said:
I agree.

I tend to think that most of the guys who claim there's nothing special about tubes have never owned a truly great tube amp that was set up to work perfectly and so they're not speaking from actual experience. Instead, they're theorizing based on very limited experience. By "truly great tube amp", I'm not talking about a Sovtek or some kind of Crate, BTW. I'm talking about a truly classic and great amp: 50's or 60's Fender, Marshall, Vox, etc., or one of the great modern tubes amps: Mesa, Matchless, Bogner, etc.
Lew
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Well that reinforces my point that is the mode/brand that maters. I have played through very diferent tube amps (is true that i dont own aby of them) and the results vary from nothing special to really surprising, also I have a Friend thats has been playing for 15 years (and was the high priest of tubes) and he changed the magical tube for a roland JC because he realized that he had being digitalizing the signal (TC electronix, Lexicon) to a point that what he needed was a really "plain" high definition clean chanel (he still keeps his marshall though)

PD: the marshalls arent That good, at least I preffer any Vox model over a JCM (yeah they have quite unique sound but they are not that special) but that is another (outtopic) story
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

My preference is for good quality pedals into good quality tube amps. This is largely a matter of practicality, because my work requires a broad range of available gain stages and 'flavors' of gain, which can't be produced by a single amplifier, at least not one that can be easily flown around. As much as I love the sound of a good tube amp in overdrive, I have been able to find pedals that fulfil the task admirably. Having a good tube amp as the foundation is essential to me, because it becomes the platform for what is ultimately feeding the speakers. The better pedal and amp builders understand this interaction, and build their equipment accordingly. Much of the issue also rests in the hands of the player, and if the input signal and content is of a quality that dictates to the equipment how it will behave, the results through a good PA system are not generally going to leave anyone in the audience wanting for a more enjoyable experience because of the presence of a chip in a pedal on the floor. The rest is a matter of the player's enjoyment, and for me that involves a high quality tube amp providing the foundation, and various gain and tonal colorations coming from good pedals.




Cheers....................................... wahwah
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

gerardotejada said:
PD: the marshalls arent That good, at least I preffer any Vox model over a JCM (yeah they have quite unique sound but they are not that special) but that is another (outtopic) story
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Some of the greatest guitar tones of all time have been generated by Marshalls.

Sure - not ALL Marshalls are that good...but the great Marshalls are as good as it gets.

Not ALL Fenders are that good...but the great Fenders are as good as it gets.

There are no solid state or digital guitar amps that are on that exact same highest level as the greatest tube guitar amps. There's some really good ones - but they all fall slightly short to very short of being on that same highest level of tonal nirvana as the finest, greatest tube amps.

What's the highest praise that you ever hear spoken about a solid state or non-tube amp?

I'll tell you: it's when they say that a non-tube amp sounds like tubes.

That's because great tube amps are the standard to which every thing else is compared. It's common knowledge. And the tone of a great tube amp is what all non-tube amps aspire to.

"Aspire to". That means they're still trying to match the tone but still have a ways to go.

To know what a great tube amp sounds and feels like and how it affects your tone and inspires creativity you have to own one. It's not the same trying one out in a music store with a sales person looking over your shoulder and keeping you on a leash.

It has to be YOURS for that experience to be 100% real.

Otherwise, it's like shaking hands with a beautiful woman and then mistakenly thinking you know what it would be like for her to be your wife or life partner: just fantasy. Not actual reality.

I'm a big proponent of experiencing actual reality - not theorizing about it.

Lew
 
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Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

jeremy said:
lew




lew?

are you a lu lu lew?
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I like Lulu. Both Little Lulu in the 50's comic books (I collect them, BTW, as long as they're by the original artist and writer, John Stanley!) and Lulu the singer - although I'd rather listen to Aretha Franklin! Lew
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

Lewguitar said:
Some of the greatest guitar tones of all time have been generated by Marshalls.

Sure - not ALL Marshalls are that good...but the great Marshalls are as good as it gets.

Not ALL Fenders are that good...but the great Fenders are as good as it gets.

There are no solid state or digital guitar amps that are on that exact same highest level as the greatest tube guitar amps. There's some really good ones - but they all fall slightly short to very short of being on that same highest level of tonal nirvana as the finest, greatest tube amps.

What's the highest praise that you ever hear spoken about a solid state or non-tube amp?

I'll tell you: it's when they say that a non-tube amp sounds like tubes.

That's because great tube amps are the standard to which every thing else is compared. It's common knowledge. And the tone of a great tube amp is what all non-tube amps aspire to.

"Aspire to". That means they're still trying to match the tone but still have a ways to go.

To know what a great tube amp sounds and feels like and how it affects your tone and inspires creativity you have to own one. It's not the same trying one out in a music store with a sales person looking over your shoulder and keeping you on a leash.

It has to be YOURS for that experience to be 100% real.

Otherwise, it's like shaking hands with a beautiful woman and then mistakenly thinking you know what it would be like for her to be your wife or life partner: just fantasy. Not actual reality.

I'm a big proponent of experiencing actual reality - not theorizing about it.

Lew
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I'd like to thank Lew for articulating the scrambled thoughts in my head. Well said Lew.

Also I'd like to add that there shouldn't be any limitations when it comes to your sound. Experiment. Be different and unique. By putting limitations on gear combinations you really are just limiting yourself.
 
Re: distortion from a Tube or From a box

Lewguitar said:
Some of the greatest guitar tones of all time have been generated by Marshalls.

Sure - not ALL Marshalls are that good...but the great Marshalls are as good as it gets.

Not ALL Fenders are that good...but the great Fenders are as good as it gets.

There are no solid state or digital guitar amps that are on that exact same highest level as the greatest tube guitar amps. There's some really good ones - but they all fall slightly short to very short of being on that same highest level of tonal nirvana as the finest, greatest tube amps.

What's the highest praise that you ever hear spoken about a solid state or tube amp?

I'll tell you: it's when they say that a non-tube amp sounds like tubes.

That's because great tube amps are the standard to which every thing else is compared. It's common knowledge. And the tone of a great tube amp is what all non-tube amps aspire to.

"Aspire to". That means they're still trying to match the tone but still have a ways to go.

To know what a great tube amp sounds and feels like and how it affects your tone and inspires creativity you have to own one. It's not the same trying one out in a music store with a sales person looking over your shoulder and keeping you on a leash.

It has to be YOURS for that experience to be 100% real.

Otherwise, it's like shaking hands with a beautiful woman and then mistakenly thinking you know what it would be like for her to be your wife or life partner: just fantasy. Not actual reality.

I'm a big proponent of experiencing actual reality - not theorizing about it.

Lew
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welll.... is not quite true, but you are making sence.
I am not going to touch the marshall thing, is far out topic, people always want to crucify me when I say the marshall arent that good (most people is amazed by the name marshall and the history and position if the brand not the sound itself) Is an opinion

The higest praises not always comes from higest minds, when the people talk abut sound I.ve heard great praises for Rolands, Polytones, Solid State fenders, and Tube amp marshals (As I said marshalls arent bad, is juwst they arent god). Most people that I know praises tube amps more for the simbol and "feeling" (a personal sensation) that for the real definition of the sound, well that are the tube worshiopers that I most despice.

The rest of people that praises the tube amps alway talk about one important thing, overdrive. The other differences are more subtle but it doesnt really are that important (and varies from amp to amp) to say tube amp are superior, I am not saying that are bad or anything like it.

The distortion however is the thing thats always comapred with tube amps, in that you are right. Any way dont forget also that a little less 10% (I think) of the reputation of the tubes comes for historical reasons, and most people (this is sadly a fact) love tube amps just for the tubes (for the historical and symbolical position of tubes) not for the sound. But that isnt the case in here

And my friend, no piece of gear can change your inspiration or your creativity, Beethoven and wagner lived in an era when the nature of the instruments was changing (the source of the strings for example made a variation in the tone and playing) but that wasnt what determinated their creativity, diferent sounds just means different sources, nothing more. Its not about rock or jazz or watherver, also its not about playing guitar, Its about music, the rest is just for fun

and I dont just shake hands, if you know what I mean , yeah baby...
the tube amps that I tried belong to a few friends that play "profecionally" (well just one of them have a contract) that means two things

1.-I played the amps without a sales person behind me
2.- I played just a very few models. A pevey clasic 30 wats(I didnt quite like it but sounded great) a marshall JCM stack (not my thing) and a Leany 20 wats(I realy like it, but didnt surprise me). But is funy the only Tube amp that I fall in love was one Vox that I see in a store that was just too expensive to my pocket. But as you can see I am not expert in tube amps, but I know their sound quite well, just with exeption of the Vox I never feel that "tube sound is the best since sex" feeling

but outside this considerations you are right I havent experienced enough
 
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