Distortion vs. PATB Original/Distortion

[Inflames626]

Somebody has probably beat this topic to death but I'm about to begin a new project. I am checking to see if it will be worth the effort before I start.

I'm building a mid 00s Japanese Jackson RR3 from parts as they are hard to find intact now. I have assembled the body, neck, and tuners. I will then do the electronics and bridge. I'm thinking about outfitting it with the following:

1) Schaller FR (non-Lockmeister--it fits the bridge route better than the Lockmeister or OFR)
2) Parallel Axis neck/bridge Original
3) Triple Shots on each PA
4) Independent volume knobs
5) Push pull phase on neck pickup
6) Shadow killswitch pot on bridge pickup
7) Passive master tone knob perhaps linked to another function via push/pull if I come up with something.

I use the Distortion bridge in a Jackson DK2S with a Sustainiac. I like it but I mainly use it just for solos as I find the Distortion a bit harsh and ice-picky in the highs. I may swap that out with a PATB Distortion.

My hope is using the Original PATB will sound like a Distortion but with more clarity and less fizz, making it better for frequent switches between rhythm and lead work. My hope is it will cut through for solos like a Distortion but not kill your ears when chugging. However, I'm not sure if the Triple Shot/phase wiring combinations will be worth all the effort.

Do the PA pickups sound that different when split/parallel/out of phase?

I expect the Distortion PATB to sound like the Original but to cut through on the highs more, hence my using it in the Sustainiac guitar.

Thanks.

 

[Despair]

The PATB-1b doesn't really sound like a Distortion to me, it lacks the harsh presence, and has less mids, but more lower mids. Softer attack, too, partly because of the different magnet, partly because of the different polepiece/coil structure. It sounds kind of like a bigger but a bit less mid-scooped Custom 5. But it's sweeter for solos, better sustain due to softer magnetic field, and harmonics really pop. I can make mine work for 80s rock & metal tones, it doesn't have the upper mid push of a JB, harmonics don't sound identical, but they still sing out. It's very flexible. Back off the tone and soften pick attack and it starts sounding and feeling more like a Custom Custom, which was a pleasant surprise.

PATB-2b Parallel Axis Distortion has a different feel than the TB-6 Distortion, higher output, more lower mid growl, more sustain, and less harsh a presence. Less upper mid/treble focused, but harmonics just sing out. If you want a tight speed metal tone out of it, you may need something to cut the bass/lower mids a bit before it slams the preamp. Like the ubiquitous Tube Screamer (and clones) that are all over metal rhythms (0-2 drive, 5-7 tone, 8-10 volume, typically). Or you can play with an EQ before the amp.

I'd take it over a standard Distortion every time, but my ears really tend to notice the ceramic gritty presence, particularly on the Distortion. I like it better for lead and riffs than the original Distortion, and don't mind having to work a bit to get tighter rhythm tones.

There used to be a SDUGF member Daemon Barbecue who had some great PATB-2b samples. Showed that while it tends to push amps into compression because of the output, it was interesting to play and listen to because of how much it reacted to pick articulation. Which is a general trait of Parallel Axis pickups.

If the PATB-2b doesn't work for you, and you want a more flexible, less harsh pickup somewhat like the TB-6 Distortion, I'd look at a Black Winter. Doesn't have quite as much upper mid focus, but also has less difficult highs/presence. The Alternative 8 or JB might be other good options, depending on what you are looking for in solo & chugging tones. JB can be flubby in some guitars, but there's plenty of metal guitarists who have used them, even for rhythm.

Hope that's helpful! More on your amps/playing style/tonal quirks of guitars can help narrow suggestions, if you still aren't sure!

 

[devastone]

I agree with Despair, the PATB is quite different than the original Distortion, it reminds me more of a DMZ Super 3, very midrangey with chopped highs and tight lows, but still has plenty of harmonics. I like it better for Floyd guitars, but it may not be the sound you are looking for.

 

[Inflames626]

Thanks for the great responses guys. I really like the Custom 5 and I've had even better luck with the 498t as an all-rounder.

That said it sounds like it will be give and take. I'll get back with you on this when I have more time.

 

[devastone]

FWIW, I really didn't like the C5, it was too scooped for me. I don't think the PATB-2 sounds much like it, more of a Super 3 to me, which has a lot of mids, but, it's been years since I used one.

 

[jeremy]

the patb-1b is a great all around pup. if you like the c5, i think youll really like the patb1b. the patb2 is just like the others describe

 

[Inflames626]

devastone , I agree on the C5. It is one of those "this is a scooped Mesa Boogie riff" pickups. It definitely has a color to it and I can see how its lack of mids would be problematic in a mix. The cleans, though, sound really nice, and I'm considering building a Custom/Custom 5 guitar to see how the C5 sounds in the neck.

If I do use the C5 in the bridge, it will probably be on a fixed bridge guitar I can change tunings on quickly so I can chug with a minimum of fuss.

Despair , my favorite SD pickup so far is the Full Shred. I was hoping the PATB-1 or PATB-2 could get me closer to that and away from the fizzy highs of the TB-6 Distortion.

In my DAW I definitely prefer a moderate output pickup with the grit coming from my front end amp boost.

 

[devastone]

It won't be as bright as the Full Shred, that is actually a pretty bright pickup. If you want that sound, I would go with a FS trembucker.

 

[Inflames626]

devastone , of the SDs I have tried my ideal pickup would be a FS with the low end of a Screamin Demon. I'm not sure such a thing exists on regular production pickups. I'm trying everything before going to the Custom Shop.

 

[Inflames626]

As an aside, I really like how DiMarzio has recently added a low and high mids to their pickup descriptions on the website. I hope SD follows suit.

Unfortunately I have to assume that SDs with high mid numbers tend to sound boxy, so I have to go for pickups that are described as scooped to get the frequencies I'm looking for.

For me, 200hz to 2 khz is pretty flat and reserved for bass. I would consider 2khz and above upper mids and 5 khz and above highs if that helps.

TB-6 Distortion definitely fries in the above 5 khz range, IMO.

 

[misterwhizzy]

This is a tricky question, because you’re talking about two of the three regular production humbuckers I think every hard rock or heavy metal SD fan should try, the third being the Custom. I happen to find the Distortion not to be my cup of tea at all, but I love the PATB1 and the Crazy 8. The PATB1 really worked for heavy tones for Rich Ward, although I think he finally moved on, but I think you have to give it a try and use the 21-day trial period if it’s not what you want.

 

[devastone]

Inflames626 I love the low end chunk of the Demon, I honestly don't know if the PATB-2 is the right direction or not, I like the pickup, but it is high output, I think part of the Demon and FS clear quality comes from the mid output. Maybe you want a Demon and put hex screws in for the slotted screws.

 

[Inflames626]

misterwhizzy , I don't have a lot of experience with the original Custom. I have one, but it is not in a guitar. It seems to have a lot of qualities of the TB-6 Distortion, but with a bit more clarity.

If it helps, I did try the Alternative 8 several years ago when it was first introduced. I found it to be a more muscular TB-6 Distortion, but still a bit fizzy, even when backed down far into the cavity.

 

[misterwhizzy]

If it helps, I did try the Alternative 8 several years ago when it was first introduced. I found it to be a more muscular TB-6 Distortion, but still a bit fizzy, even when backed down far into the cavity.

Alternative 8 and Crazy 8 have little more in common than their Alnico 8 magnet and the fact that they both fit humbucker-sized cavities. The Crazy 8 was a medium-output forum-designed pickup made by the Custom Shop for the members here, and it later became a featured pickup of the Custom Shop. It's a phenomenal pickup, but I didn't end up finding it perfect for the guitar I put it in. (That may be due to my incessant desire to tweak, which is why I'm a member here in the first place.) Plus, I think the premium it demands isn't worth the cost above the regular SD line.