DIY Fret leveling advice

[Birdman642]

I have a guitar I’m putting together. It all feels solid, however the frets buzz like crazy and I have a decent amount of relief on the neck.
I’m wondering if a fret leveling would be in order. I’m considering doing this job myself, does anyone have any advice on the best ways to go about this? I’ve never done a leveling job or any kind of fretwork, so anything would be appreciated.

 

[Clint 55]

Get a radius block, a half round crowning file, and a quarter round file for the ends. Then practice on some cheap necks. Not relevant to the frets, but you will probably also need files to set the height at the nut as well. Those are all the major tools. Then there's sandpaper which is cheap. I use rough for the radius block to level, 60 or 80. Then my crowning file is 150. Then I keep on hand 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, and 2000 and will maybe use half of them in the process of a fret. For example after it's at 150 from my crowning file I'll use 220, 320, 800, 1000, 2000.

This guy's video is the best I've seen. It's long so you can put it on 2x speed and skip through it for the rough overview then stop at parts that you want to learn. The only part where I improve on him is he sands the frets by hand with 320 when all you need to do is stick the sandpaper in your crowning file. I hope all this made sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVWUUwYCnHA

 

[Birdman642]

Get a radius block, a half round crowning file, and a quarter round file for the ends. Then practice on some cheap necks. Not relevant to the frets, but you will probably also need files to set the height at the nut as well. Those are all the major tools. Then there's sandpaper which is cheap. I use rough for the radius block to level, 60 or 80. Then my crowning file is 150. Then I keep on hand 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1500, and 2000 and will maybe use half of them in the process of a fret. For example after it's at 150 from my crowning file I'll use 220, 320, 800, 1000, 2000.

how would the radius block work on something with a compound radius?
as far as the nut goes, will I have to remove it and redo the height on it?

 

[Clint 55]

Oh, for a compound radius, you have to just use a flat block or file and then eyeball it. It's more guesswork, but it is possible to improve it and make every note playable. The guy goes over both methods in the video, it's the first tool he shows. No, you don't need to remove the nut. After the fret job the action at the nut will be slightly higher so it can be good to have files if the action wasn't that good in the first place.

 

[ICTGoober]

I'm considering doing this job myself, does anyone have any advice on the best ways to go about this

Let's see.... Must buy specialized tools and learn specialized techniques. Or just pay someone with experience to do it. That's the best way.

 

[Clint 55]

It's possible to learn or at least do a reasonable job after a few necks. I certainly wouldn't go at a nice guitar first try tho. It's something I'd recommend so then you'll always know and won't have to pay other people forever.

 

[Birdman642]

Let's see.... Must buy specialized tools and learn specialized techniques. Or just pay someone with experience to do it. That's the best way.

Well, I was asking questions to possibly learn some techniques. Thanks.

 

[GuitarStv]

I have a guitar I’m putting together. It all feels solid, however the frets buzz like crazy and I have a decent amount of relief on the neck.
I’m wondering if a fret leveling would be in order. I’m considering doing this job myself, does anyone have any advice on the best ways to go about this? I’ve never done a leveling job or any kind of fretwork, so anything would be appreciated.

Watch a few youtube videos and then give it a shot! Most guitar work is actually pretty straight forward. It doesn't require a lot of experience to get great results if you're patient (if you're not patient then definitely pay someone else to do it). My experience is that an awful lot of people who call themselves guitar techs will do a worse job than you can on your own though.

For fret leveling you will need a few tools:
- fret levelling file (this is just a file glued to a block)
- credit card
- a sharpie
- Masking tape/painters tape.
- a whole lot of very fine sandpaper (this isn't for the levelling, but to smooth out the scratches in the frets so they feel nice and smooth after you're done)

Way to do it:
- Use the credit card to rock back and forth over 3 frets at a time to find high spots
- Mark the high spots with the sharpie
- Do a couple light passes with the fret levelling file over the marked spots until the sharpie starts to show a little (go slow).
- Repeat all steps until you can't find any spots that rock back and forth.

Usually I'll do this for an hour a day for four or five days and the frets will be pretty close to perfect. When you're filing, keep the file over 4-5 frets at a time then there's really no chance of scratching the fretboard.

After this you start polishing the frets with your sand paper. Tape off the fretboard first to avoid accidental scratches. Then I usually just cut a thin strip of sandpaper and lightly press it while going over the each fret one at a time. You're not trying to dig into the fret, just smooth out any file marks. Work your way up through the grits going about 100 more each time 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000. It will be glossy smooth at the end, but again . . . this takes forever. Take it slow, with lots of breaks.

My first attempt at this came out really good with no prior experience.

 

[Clint 55]

It helps to add a couple mm of fallaway over the heel because the truss rod is ineffective there and the strings can sometimes have a hill to get over. You can gauge how much fallaway to add with the neck on the guitar, or even better if you already have it strung up.

Also the purpose of crowning is to keep the intonation point in the center of the fret.

 

[GuitarStv]

Clint is right. I forgot about the crowning step (takes place before sanding and after levelling). I found it easiest to use a fret crowning file for this.

- tape off the fretboard
- Mark the tops of all the frets with a sharpie
- perform the crowning with the file (just go back and forth until the black line on each fret is only a thin line)

good thing is that crowning is pretty short work and only takes an hour or so.

 

[Birdman642]

Clint is right. I forgot about the crowning step (takes place before sanding and after levelling). I found it easiest to use a fret crowning file for this.

- tape off the fretboard
- Mark the tops of all the frets with a sharpie
- perform the crowning with the file (just go back and forth until the black line on each fret is only a thin line)

good thing is that crowning is pretty short work and only takes an hour or so.

Did you get your crowning file from Stew-Mac or is there another place it’s available? 108 dollars is a little steep right now. I don’t think my girlfriend would be too happy about that purchase haha.

 

[Clint 55]

There are a crapload on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...7.m570.l1313&_nkw=fret+crowning+file&_sacat=0

 

[Birdman642]

I tried the fret rocking method with the credit card that STV recommended. It only rocked at one point higher up the neck. Would a fret level still help with the buzzing?

 

[Ewizard]

If you only have one spot that the fret rocker actually rocks at, you have another issue. It can be from too low of action, too low of a nut, or too little neck relief. There is also the neurotic aspect of it. I once had a client who complained his guitar's intonation, or frets were bad because when he played it was always out of tune. His frets were perfect, his neck relief was perfect, his nut cut was perfect, but his action was 10 miles high. I lowered it and he complained there was too much fret buzz... I kept raising his action until he said it was good ( about double the factory spec!!!! ) and when he played, the guitar went out of tune... He then complained about that fact. I told him with the action as high as he wants it, he will have to live with the tuning issues. I can intonate to fix it in one spot, but not the whole neck. He didn't quite grasp it and I think I will be happy to never get a call back from him!

So your idea of buzzing is different from mine was the point. What is your action set to? If you are at or below the typical spec of about 1.5mm, then you may just be super sensitive to buzz. I prefer super low action and shoot for .75mm if I can get it, I also don't mind the buzz that comes with it. If your relief, nut cut, and frets are relatively level, then your action is all that is left to equate things too. Where are you currently at there?

 

[Birdman642]

If you only have one spot that the fret rocker actually rocks at, you have another issue. It can be from too low of action, too low of a nut, or too little neck relief. There is also the neurotic aspect of it. I once had a client who complained his guitar's intonation, or frets were bad because when he played it was always out of tune. His frets were perfect, his neck relief was perfect, his nut cut was perfect, but his action was 10 miles high. I lowered it and he complained there was too much fret buzz... I kept raising his action until he said it was good ( about double the factory spec!!!! ) and when he played, the guitar went out of tune... He then complained about that fact. I told him with the action as high as he wants it, he will have to live with the tuning issues. I can intonate to fix it in one spot, but not the whole neck. He didn't quite grasp it and I think I will be happy to never get a call back from him!

So your idea of buzzing is different from mine was the point. What is your action set to? If you are at or below the typical spec of about 1.5mm, then you may just be super sensitive to buzz. I prefer super low action and shoot for .75mm if I can get it, I also don't mind the buzz that comes with it. If your relief, nut cut, and frets are relatively level, then your action is all that is left to equate things too. Where are you currently at there?

I don’t have anything to measure that fine of a measurement at the moment. The page won’t let me upload pictures. I tried taking some from the 3rd, 5th and 7th frets. The action is relatively low, it’s a Jackson Dinky, so it’s supposed to ride a little low. It’s not quite as low as my other Jackson though. That other one has no issues with buzzing and has lower action. Both are the same model. The other one, however has a Locking nut and this current one has a regular plastic nut.
Edit: I didn’t take the neck off and straighten it as much as I could

 

[nexion218]

I'd shy away from "eyeballing" a compound radius if I were you, especialy if you don't have any experience in doing fretwork. I am sure that there are many pro luthiers who could do a decent job by just eyeballing, but there are more precise ways to do it. But if you really want to learn, go by Clint's advice: get a couple of cheap necks, preferably with non-coumpound radius and I'd also get a guitar to put the neck on to gauge the quality of the work.

 

[GuitarStv]

Did you get your crowning file from Stew-Mac or is there another place it’s available? 108 dollars is a little steep right now. I don’t think my girlfriend would be too happy about that purchase haha.

I've purchased my levelling file, a crowning file, end files, and some sanding stick kinda things all from Stew-Mac . . . but I waited until they went on sale and paid 50% or less of the regular price for each.

 

[alex1fly]

You can upload pics that are 2 mb or less. I've gotten around this by cropping my photos down until the file size is acceptable to the uploader.

 

[Clint 55]

More precise ways to level compound.

Please share.

 

[Ewizard]

If you have a set of Allen wrench keys, you can use those to gauge where you are at. Most metric sets have a 1mm and a 1.5mm. If you fret the guitar at the first fret and you can't fit a 1mm Allen wrench between the 12th fret and the string, you are lower than 1mm obviously.

As to finding out if your nut cut is good. Fret the guitar at the third fret. Now, look at the first fret. Each guitar string should just float above the first fret. And when I say just float above the first fret, I mean that they should just about be touching it. You do want a little bit of air, but literally just enough to say that the string isn't touching. If you can place a credit card, or a thin pick between the first fret and the string when fretted at the third fret, the nut cut is not deep enough. Conversely, if the string rests on the first fret ( no gap at all ) then the nut cut is too deep.

If the nut cut is too deep, you will generally get buzzing on open strings. This also tends to make action too high as you compensate for that by raising it.

The neck relief is also a factor. If you fret the f1st and 12th or 15th fret, you should have an ever so slight of air between the strings and the 7th fret. Much like the nut cut, it should just float above it. If the 7th fret is touching the string, you have a back bow, or not enough relief. This will cause buzzing when you fret the upper frets ( 1st through the 5th ). If you have too much relief, the action in the middle of the neck becomes high and you get buzzing in the higher frets ( 18th - 24th etc. ) as you lower the action to compensate.

There is an amount of flavor that can be applied to each of these things. Some people like high action, so having the nut cut depth spot on is of little need or consequence. With high action, neck relief becomes less critical. If you must have low action, then each of these things becomes very important. Getting the nut cut and the relief right are top priorities to getting lower action. Fret buzz at one or two spots on the neck is pretty easy to deal with. If you have several all over the place, it becomes a job.