DIY Fret leveling advice

[Birdman642]

I brought my guitar in to a local tech the other day. He checked the frets with a Stew-Mac level. He said they were all level and I had a good amount of relief on the neck.
He recommended that I try to seat the neck better in the pocket and switch to heavier gauge strings. I had it tuned down to D-standard with a 10-46 set. He recommended I go up to 11-48. I have yet to change the string gauge though, as it’s a new set of strings and I want to get some use out of them before I change them.
I reseated the neck in the pocket. It helped the buzz on the higher strings (It still buzzes pretty badly on the lower ones though). I do now have a dead spot on the 18th fret on the high E. My tech recommended I get a fret crowning file and gently go over that spot with the file. I’ll give that a shot and see what happens.

 

[Clint 55]

Not very good advice. I play 10s in D standard and every note plays perfectly because I level my frets well and set up my guitars well. With a good fret job, you can take the action down pretty low and have no buzz.

However that can be true that if the neck isn't seated well and/or there's too much bow, it can create a hill for the frets to get over and cause buzz.

 

[nexion218]

Please share.

My tech told me he that he hangs up the neck, frets facing down (at least this is how I underatood him) The two "ropes" (in lack of better words) are fixed at the heel and the nut, their length matching the desired radius. Thus when you start "swinging" the neck, the plane of the board will move along the nappe of a cone, precisely matching the desired compound radius. The abrasive material is fixed underneath and he just lowers the swinging fixture until the frets touch the surface . Obviously not a DIY solution, but undoubtedly yields better results than eyeballing Iguess. I hope the explanation makes sense, I feel like my English is deteriorating..:/

 

[Birdman642]

Not very good advice. I play 10s in D standard and every note plays perfectly because I level my frets well and set up my guitars well. With a good fret job, you can take the action down pretty low and have no buzz.

However that can be true that if the neck isn't seated well and/or there's too much bow, it can create a hill for the frets to get over and cause buzz.

So is this sounding to you like I need a leveling?

 

[Clint 55]

If you eliminate the possibility of a contour problem, basically the bow coming back up. If the set up all looks correct and it's buzzing with regular action then yes it needs a level.

 

[nexion218]

I brought my guitar in to a local tech the other day. (...) He said they were all level (...) I do now have a dead spot on the 18th fret on the high E. My tech recommended I get a fret crowning file and gently go over that spot with the file. I’ll give that a shot and see what happens.

To be honest, this doesn't quite add up in my head... How do you get a dead spot if your frets are level?

A few other things that come to mind:

- Are you sure the buzz comes from the frets? you mentioned it has not locking nut so I guess the bridge is some sort of TOM. Those may have rattling parts in them.
- What about the nut? Are the strings seated properly?
- Wouldbe cool to know what kind of"not low enough" action are we talking about? If you're shooting for <1 mm, that ain't gonna happen I'm afraid...
- Does the buzz come through the amp or is it just acoustic? If it's not audible through the amp, than it's OK with an electric. They are not meant to play unplugged

 

[ICTGoober]

To the OP - Your "tech" is just that. What you really need is a luthier. And if you went to Guitar Center, you're a fool.

 

[Birdman642]

To be honest, this doesn't quite add up in my head... How do you get a dead spot if your frets are level?

A few other things that come to mind:

- Are you sure the buzz comes from the frets? you mentioned it has not locking nut so I guess the bridge is some sort of TOM. Those may have rattling parts in them.
- What about the nut? Are the strings seated properly?
- Wouldbe cool to know what kind of"not low enough" action are we talking about? If you're shooting for <1 mm, that ain't gonna happen I'm afraid...
- Does the buzz come through the amp or is it just acoustic? If it's not audible through the amp, than it's OK with an electric. They are not meant to play unplugged

The bridge is a Floyd Rose. I blocked it though as I’m not a huge trem user.
As far as I can tell, it doesn’t come through the amp. So I may just have to bite the bullet and deal with it

 

[ICTGoober]

As far as I can tell, it doesn't come through the amp

Wait a minute... You are complaining about an acoustic buzz that does NOT go through the amp? You are the kind of customer I would order to leave. Acoustic buzz on an electric is a non-problem.

 

[GuitarStv]

Wait a minute... You are complaining about an acoustic buzz that does NOT go through the amp? You are the kind of customer I would order to leave. Acoustic buzz on an electric is a non-problem.

Responses like this reveal why going to a guitar tech should usually be a last resort. Many of them have huge egos and prefer to set up guitars to their own tastes rather than listening to what a customer wants.

 

[Top-L]

To the OP...

I learned how to level/crown my guitars about ten years ago. I wish I had learned 20 years ago.

Its an important "life skill" for any guitarist who is buying guitars on ebay.

I bought a leveling beam on amazon along with a set of fret files. I crown the frets with files, not the shaping tool. (Although I will go over them with that after the majority of work is done with files.) You will also need a perfect straight edge, and a notched edge to measure the board.

A radiusing block is generally used to radius the fingerboard without frets. That is something you need if refretting.

I can turn consistent results without buzzing that is considered "very low" action. However, I am always looking to improve my process, I think I can do even better. I am sure there are luthiers out there who have done hundreds/thousands of guitars that can do "next level" work. But I also know that luthiers are working on the clock and I have had some jobs done that I consider short cuts. I trust my ability to do a better job than a busy luthier who is just trying to do as many jobs in as little time as possible.

Its one of those "attention to detail" activities. Its not hard to run a leveling beam across any guitar, get the frets level and playable to an 8/10. I think if you take your time on your first guitar you can do 8/10 work that you are happy with. It will be better than almost all guitars that you buy new.

 

[ErikH]

I have a crowning file, some polishing erasers, a notched level and have a leveling beam on the way. Last night I took care of a high fret on my Warmoth. It was the 21st fret that was just a tick high, enough that bends on 18 through 20 on the low E would fret out doing full step bends. I was able to take care of it with the crowning file as it only needed a tiny amount removed. Verified it with a credit card that it was level (fret rocker is on the way too) and polished it with the erasers. When that looked good I polished the rest of the frets which smoothed them out too (400 then 1000). It plays like butter at the action I like with no fretting out on bends.

Once I have the leveling beam and rocker, I've got a Silvertone Strat that could use a level/crown/polish and a cheap acoustic with nasty sharp frets that definitely needs work. Those two will be my practice beds, starting with that acoustic.

This is a skill I've wanted to learn but have been either too intimidated to get in to or didn't have the money to get the right tools necessary. Now I feel better about it. My favorite local tech showed me how he does it and actually let me level one on one of my own necks when he was doing a level/crown/polish on it some years back. Nice guy and does fantastic work. If I botch any of my players, I know he can fix them up.

 

[Clint 55]

Go with a radius block rather than a flat tool for the leveling if you have a straight radius neck. It guarantees a perfect axis horizontally for the radius and all you have to do is focus on leveling vertically nut to heel. Instead of guessing with the radius.. No point. Also, for those jagged ends, use a quarter round file.

 

[jimzucco]

My advice is, first and foremost, don't get too caught up on buzz. Almost all guitars with low action buzz to some degree. It's only ever an issue if it comes through the amp. That being said, I do all my guitar work myself and you do not need any specialized equipment or tools at all. You can get perfect results with stuff you buy from harbor freight.

Grab a set of small needle files, not diamond. Grab a straight edge. Get a 24" level, go for aluminum. Grab some 320-1000 grit sandpaper, rolls would be nice so you can cut to length, but whatever you have available works too. Get some double sided tape. You'll want to get some sharpies, some steel wool pads (not the ones with soap haha), and if you have a dremel maybe some brown polishing compound and polishing wheels in place of the steel wool. Also get masking tape.

Grab your straight edge and hold it along the neck. Mark off with sharpie where each fret is and use your file to make a notch for each fret. Now you have a notched straight edge. Adjust your truss so that it's flat flat flat (no strings of course). Stick 320 or 400 grit to the length of the aluminum level with double sided tape - no bumps or folds, make sure it's nice. Color frets with sharpie so that the tops are all black. Now place the level with sandpaper on the frets and begin sanding back and forth, trying hard to be hitting all the frets evenly. You don't need to press down at all, weight of the level is enough. Go slow and you'll start to notice that the sharpie is sanding off. Some frets (the lower ones) will still be black whole others will begin to flatten on top. You want to keep sanding ALL of the frets (even the ones now without sharpie) until ALL the frets are free of sharpie on top. You now have a leveled fretboard but you need to crown and polish.

Mask off your fretboard with masking tape, doing it one fret at a time is perfectly fine, crown the fret, pull the tape, next fret. Anyway, color your frets again with black sharpie. I highly suggest you take one of the 3 corner or flat files from your needle file set and use sandpaper or a belt sander to smooth one edge. This way you have a safe edge on your fret file. Purchasing a specialized crowning file will make this so much easier. With your 3 corner file begin to carefully file the black colored line on top of each fret to the straightest and thinnest line you can, while still keeping a line on top. What you're doing here is shaping the top of the fret to a nice thin point. After you've done all the frets you want to hit each fret with progressively finer grits of sandpaper from about 600 to 1000. Then finish off with steel wool or a dremel with polishing compound. You'll want the entire board taped off for this, with just frets exposed.

Buying the specialized equipment, even the cheap stuff from Amazon, can save a massive amount of time and trouble. Pick and choose what you're comfortable with. If you buy one specialized tool I would recommend a crowning file. I also highly recommend you practice at least once on a trash neck. And finally, I recommend you really study the process and understand what you're doing in each step. Understanding everything you're doing helps a lot. Trust me, I've ruined necks before because I didn't understand what I was doing.

 

[jimzucco]

One other thing I'd like to add. Stew mac tools are the real deal and are significantly better quality than the stuff you can buy for cheap. While you can get a whole file set, crowning set, end files, etc for the cost of one Stew mac 3 corner file, the Stew mac will do a better job than all of the above and last a lifetime. A lot of these amazon tools will last you a few jobs.

If you have the money, buy once cry once. This is very true with specialized tools.

 

[jimilee]

One other thing I'd like to add. Stew mac tools are the real deal and are significantly better quality than the stuff you can buy for cheap. While you can get a whole file set, crowning set, end files, etc for the cost of one Stew mac 3 corner file, the Stew mac will do a better job than all of the above and last a lifetime. A lot of these amazon tools will last you a few jobs.

If you have the money, buy once cry once. This is very true with specialized tools.

This. I’ve gone both routes, taking the long way around, you spend twice as much and create twice the work for yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GuitarDoc]

It's possible to learn or at least do a reasonable job after a few necks. I certainly wouldn't go at a nice guitar first try tho. It's something I'd recommend so then you'll always know and won't have to pay other people forever.

And I CERTAINLY wouldn't EVER start with 60-80 grit on the frets even on a crummy throw-away guitar, unless you actually want to end up with a "fretless" guitar.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Well, there certainly is a lot of bad advice in this thread.

It seams most everyone's trying to tell him "how" to do it himself. Which, in and of itself isn't necessarily bad. But it takes a lot of specialized tools, time, money, patience and practice to become proficient at doing fretwork. A lot of mistakes and waste will happen along the way. At one point the OP stated that he can't even afford a good fret crowning file. This is NOT good advice to recommend buying $500 of tools and expect 3-4 wasted necks due to mistakes from lack of learning/experience. If he just wanted to learn how to do fretwork, that's another story. But to just get his guitar fixed correctly is not a good time to learn fretwork...probably the most intricate and detailed (and most important) work to be done on a guitar.

For this particular person at this particular time the best advice (which WAS given) is to take the guitar to a good luthier...not a "guitar tech" working at Guitar Center claiming to be good at what he does. There are multiple possibilities of what the problems are here and it needs to be dealt with by someone capable of solving them.

 

[formula73]

Not to split hairs but any decent tech can do fretwork. You don’t need a mfn ‘luthier’ to level and crown.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Not to split hairs but any decent tech can do fretwork. You don’t need a mfn ‘luthier’ to level and crown.

Of course. You don't even need to be a tech. ANYONE can do it...if you know how.

And how do you know who can and who can't do it right? Like I said, this is probably the most important/critical work to be done on a guitar. You don't want or need to pay someone to screw it up. It really needs to be done right the first time. Believe me, I know. I've been doing fret work for 50 years and I've done my share of screw-ups, mostly early on. But even when you're good at it and you think you're being very careful, a simple mistake/slip can ruin a guitar. It seems that the OP is certainly not to the point where he could do a decent fret job even if he had all of the essential tools.