Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

[WhoFan]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Ya see, some players are trying to get more tone of of their guitars by changing caps and such. They dont get real tone until they get a flux capacitor.

ya but it is hard to run across the stage at 88 mph's...


why the hell does Warmoth made so many pretty maple top strat bodies and top route them? that's a waste of nice maple if you ask me... but only for looks not tone

 

[Guest]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Seriouslly now. I kn ow next to nothing but I wouldn't say "rob". Impact? Sure. Rob, no.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

I'm referring specifically to the stratocaster with its ginormous pickguard. We all know that the strings vibrate (which causes them to make sound right?) and that vibration is translated into the body through the bridge, nut, etc so that the body resonates. A good resonating body is important for good tone I hear. I also know that plastic does not resonate very well. That is why there are no guitars (at least good guitars) built out of plastic, or the material pickguards are made of. People dont even like plastic nuts for their guitar...most people prefer other materials. Something else to consider, is whether or not the strings transmit sound energy to the body through the air...I suppose they must since we can hear the sound...but how much of a factor is this in regards to a pickguard, seeing that the sound energy from the strings themselves would probably hit the pickguard, and possibly would be dampened by the plastic. If there was no pickguard, I can imagine the sound waves transmitted through the air would resonate the body better...perhaps... So, do you think then that pickguards (specificlaly referring to stratocasters, since they have large pickguards) rob tone?

There used to be guitars made from plastic. Anyways, no, the pickups work magnetically. The body dampens or resonates frequencies based on the way it is made and the woods, and so really the pickguard is just "along for the ride", because the body translates this resonance and/or dampening through the strings, which is picked up by the pickups.

I really don't think the plastic has anything to do with it, at least not to a level that is really worth worrying about. See my Engineer Comments for some of the research I've already done with an engineer who works for the USAF. We were bored one day.

The only way to know if the pickups do or don't influence tone would be to, on the same guitar, remove the pickguard and directly bolt the pickups to the body, and they'd have to be exactly alike in how high they were, etc. I don't think the difference, plastic or not, is appreciable.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

The reason the body resonance is so important is cause it keeps the strings moving, thus sustaining the signal made in the pickup coils. Whomever said in the other post that the wood's vibration gets sensed by the pickup is full of it...it's only reading the up and down movement of the string in the magnet's field. On a Strat, the strings are mounted inside the trem block, and the block is mounted to the guitar...not the pickguard, so the body gets the vibes first, and the pickguard only gets what the body gives it.
It might take the tiniest bit of the vibration away, but certainly no more than the plastic mounting rings on an LP, or other style guitar.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

The reason the body resonance is so important is cause it keeps the strings moving, thus sustaining the strings' signal fed to the pickup coils. Whomever said that the wood's vibration gets sensed by the pickup is full of it...it's only reading the up and down movement of the string in the magnet's field. In a Strat, the strings are mounted inside the trem block, and the block is mounted to the guitar...not the pickguard, so the body gets the vibes first, and the pickguard only gets what the body gives it.

I think it's both more body mass = more inertia for the strings to overcome, but ultimately the body woods will get set in motion by the string anyways. Maybe this is how it goes: the resistance to string vibration at first keeps most the energy in the string, but then as the body wood slowly absorbs energy, the better quality wood will not dampen this motion, but sustain it, hence it sounds good during decay. I think this is how Les Pauls work, since they're made of a resonant wood (mahogany), but a big slice of it (mass).

What do you think? Granted, yes, Strats are different, but due to how they're made: I think ultimately the basic concept is the same.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

If the pickups are mounted on the pickguard, I guess the tone would be slightly differant than if the pickups were screwed directly to the body. But I think the diff would be very, very, VERY slight.

And I don't think the mass of a pickguard screwed to the body of a solid body guitar would have any appreciable impact on the resonance of a solid body guitar.

I don't think the finish makes much difference either when it comes to solid body guitars.

Acoustic guitars? Maybe.

Solid body guitars? I don't think so.

I think a lot of stuff that kids stay up at night fantasizing about (nitro vs. poly finishes, pickguards muting the tone of a solid body guitar, multiple switches to give your guitar a jillion different useless tones, etc.) is mostly mind deadening head stuff and the kinds of things you stop worrying about the longer you play and the more experience you get under your belt.

Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

If the pickups are mounted on the pickguard, I guess the tone would be slightly differant than if the pickups were screwed directly to the body. But I think the diff would be very, very, VERY slight.
And I don't think the mass of a pickguard screwed to the body of a solid body guitar would have any appreciable impact on the resonance of a solid body guitar.
I don't think the finish makes much difference either when it comes to solid body guitars.
Acoustic guitars? Maybe.
Solid body guitars? I don't think so.
I think a lot of stuff that kids stay up at night fantasizing about (nitro vs. poly finishes, pickguards muting the tone of a solid body guitar, multiple switches to give your guitar a jillion different useless tones, etc.) is mostly mind deadening head stuff and the kinds of things you stop worrying about the longer you play and the more experience you get under your belt.
Lew

Thank you, very well said!

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

If the pickups are mounted on the pickguard, I guess the tone would be slightly differant than if the pickups were screwed directly to the body. But I think the diff would be very, very, VERY slight.

And I don't think the mass of a pickguard screwed to the body of a solid body guitar would have any appreciable impact on the resonance of a solid body guitar.

I don't think the finish makes much difference either when it comes to solid body guitars.

Acoustic guitars? Maybe.

Solid body guitars? I don't think so.

I think a lot of stuff that kids stay up at night fantasizing about (nitro vs. poly finishes, pickguards muting the tone of a solid body guitar, multiple switches to give your guitar a jillion different useless tones, etc.) is mostly mind deadening head stuff and the kinds of things you stop worrying about the longer you play and the more experience you get under your belt.

Lew

+1

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Thank you, very well said!

Thanks Christian. And you should have that '62 Fender Deluxe amp early next week. Good gosh - it's a killer sounding amp. You're going to love it!


Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Thanks Christian. And you should have that '62 Fender Deluxe amp early next week. Good gosh - it's a killer sounding amp. You're going to love it!
Lew

Very cool...I can't wait! I got my speaker today in fact...a pretty clean 1968 silver frame Celestion Alnico 12...should be nice!

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

I think a lot of stuff that kids stay up at night fantasizing about (nitro vs. poly finishes, pickguards muting the tone of a solid body guitar, multiple switches to give your guitar a jillion different useless tones, etc.) is mostly mind deadening head stuff and the kinds of things you stop worrying about the longer you play and the more experience you get under your belt.
Lew

That's well said.

Cheers, Lew, and here's greetings from Jamestown, right across the Peak to Peak.
I'm hoisting a Dale's Pale Ale right now in honor of CO musicians!:beerchug:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Very cool...I can't wait! I got my speaker today in fact...a pretty clean 1968 silver frame Celestion Alnico 12...should be nice!

Yes...it should be! I've tried many speakers in that amp (new Jensens, old Jensens and lots of differant Celestions).

The alnico Celestions, the G12H30 and Vintage 30 were the three that sounded the best to me...and the alnico Celestion was the "best".

The older ones sound deeper and less ice picky than the new reissue.

Lew

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Yes...it should be! I've tried many speakers in that amp (new Jensens, old Jensens and lots of differant Celestions).
The alnico Celestions, the G12H30 and Vintage 30 were the three that sounded the best to me...and the alnico Celestion was the "best".
The older ones sound deeper and less ice picky than the new reissue.
Lew

This one happenes to be a silver just like the one you were using in it! It's a 68 model and has the pulsonic 102/3 cone. Im pretty excited about it...should be nice.

How was the H30?? I assume your H30(s) is/are an older one???

 

[tubeman87]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

NO I don't think so, if it affects its any it's very minimal.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

This one happenes to be a silver just like the one you were using in it! It's a 68 model and has the pulsonic 102/3 cone. Im pretty excited about it...should be nice.

How was the H30?? I assume your H30(s) is/are an older one???

I really liked every Celestion I tried in there. I thought the best sounding ceramic was the G12H30...then the Vintage 30...then the Greenback. They all sounded very, very good.

But I always felt like something was missing...a certain vocal quality. When I put the silver alnico Celestion in there I finally got the tone I was looking for.

If you do decide to change the cab, go for solid pine with fingerjoined corners.

The cherry cab I made for it looks great but does make for a slightly brighter and less resonant tone than pine. I prefer the tone of solid pine amps.

Lew

 

[BTMN]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

While I voted no, I feel it does impact the sound. I'll be anxious to see how the pickguard on this newest guitar acts.

Bowen

Mahogany body and neck with a Cocabolo fingerboard, pickguard, and cavity cover. Unknown about the brand or luthier other than he might be a boat builder who moonlights making guitars. Looks well put together. I think it looks like Korina not Mahogany but what do I know. :32::cool3:

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

I really liked every Celestion I tried in there. I thought the best sounding ceramic was the G12H30...then the Vintage 30...then the Greenback. They all sounded very, very good.
But I always felt like something was missing...a certain vocal quality. When I put the silver alnico Celestion in there I finally got the tone I was looking for.
If you do decide to change the cab, go for solid pine with fingerjoined corners.
The cherry cab I made for it looks great but does make for a slightly brighter and less resonant tone than pine. I prefer the tone of solid pine amps.
Lew

We're completely off topic in this thread...oh well!

I have thought about getting a cab made for it...I like the looks of solid wood cabs but to me they have never sounded quite right. I've already talked with a guy about a solid pine cab, finger jointed, thin plywood baffle, period correct brown tolex, correct handle, grill, etc...plus if I do get a cab from him he's gonna use 60+ year old pine for the cab!!!

 

[PaulReedSmith]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

seriously though...on the gearpage...quite a few people feel the pickguard robs tone. It must in some way. The strings transmit sonic energy to the body through the air right? so having a plastic pickguard there instead of wood, will dampen the sound energy...thus probably causing less resonance and sustain, etc.

anyway, it is more a question between strats. The fender showmaster series of stratocasters have no pickguard, and they sound fantastic...but thats personal preference I suppose.


Please stay on topic.

 

[PaulReedSmith]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Well think of it this way...



If you took a piece of plastic and screwed it onto the front of a les paul, do you think it would affect the sound in a good way? I think not...
The sound energy (sound is really energy) from the strings, which travels through the air to the body, would be dampened by the pickguard, and thus affected, most likely in a bad way.

 

[PaulReedSmith]

Re: Do Pickguards Rob Your Tone?

Another Analogy...

On an acoustic guitar, the strings vibrate which creates sound waves which travel to the soundboard of the guitar. They thus vibrate the top of the guitar (and the back, but to a much less extent) and cause us to hear the sound of the guitar amplified by the body, etc.

Do you think the guitar would have the same resonance and sustain if someone covered about 60% of the top of the acoustic guitar with a pickguard? I think not. The plastic would dampen the vibrations and cause a loss of tone. Major tone suckage.

I know this is probably an extreme example, but the physics related principles still hold true with solid body guitars.

And if you have the argument that "oh, the vibrations of the strings just go into the sound hole, etc blah blah" well, there are a few guitar makers that locate the soundhole AWAY from the strings, so yeah...the top of the guitar is in fact being vibrated by the energy from the strings transmitted through the air, the bridge, and the nut.