Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

[smauk43]

After toying with the idea of replacing the stock pickups in my SG standard, I got to thinking......I play at home through a Vox ad30 valvetronix and use the two Vox and Fender models, as well as the Dumble clean. But MOSTLY use the UK 70's and 80's models. Also got a Tremonti SE with Super D/Norton combo. Would there be that much noticeable difference in any real quality pickup when playing with different amp models anyway?

 

[MBreinin]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

I play through a V-Amp pro and, yes, I have noticed huge differences between pickups.

Mike

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

Yeah I mean the pickup is still your main sound source, regardless of what comes next. As a matter of fact, I'd say with a modeller, the pickup becomes MORE important, because that thing is going to do what it does digitally, and the only thing you can really control is what's coming out of the guitar. In other words, there's an organic sympathy between a guitar and a moderately loud tube amp that is basically stopped dead in it's tracks with MOST of today's modellers. So all you have control over is the guitar tone. You can't really "play off the amp" when playing live. But there are some modellers that take whatever signal you give it, and completely morph it PRE-overdrive, too. In those cases you could play an EMG or a vintage strat and it's hardly noticable. The cheaper stuff seems like that to me. They just compress and EQ shape the signal right at the front end for uniformity. That's not the case with your Vox. Whenever I've played or heard the Vox stuff, it didn't have the "everything sounds the same" syndrome.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

Yeah I mean the pickup is still your main sound source, regardless of what comes next. As a matter of fact, I'd say with a modeller, the pickup becomes MORE important, because that thing is going to do what it does digitally, and the only thing you can really control is what's coming out of the guitar. In other words, there's an organic sympathy between a guitar and a moderately loud tube amp that is basically stopped dead in it's tracks with MOST of today's modellers. So all you have control over is the guitar tone.

This is completely wrong and baseless IMO, but then again I haven't played through every modeller out there.

Short answer: YES pickup selection still matters with a modeller.

Long answer: It depends on the amp model you use, and the effects you add, but you could say the same thing about amps and effects in the analog world. Put a cranked compressor, a cranked Boss Metal Zone, and a flanger in front of a cranked Dual Rectifier, and I guarantee you pretty much every guitar you plug into that monstrosity will sound identical.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

You can hear differences but they are much more subtle than they are through real amps.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

-ratherdashing-

I agree with what you say, but what part of what I said is baseless and wrong? The "stop dead in it's tracks" part? I can't tell what you're getting at, but your short and long answer don't seem to conflict with anything I said. A Vintage single vs. a high gain bucker creates an entirely different dynamic across all points of a tube amp. In other words, it doesn't just affect the preamp gain, it affects the way the rectifier reacts, the power section, everything subsequent in the chain. The modeller simply models the signal path of said tube amp, and then applies that information in the digital domain to the signal from the pickup. But in my experience it's not micro-modelling things like the way a high output humbucker can be enough to overdrive the power tubes, while a PAF/strat wouldn't, etc.

 

[smauk43]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

Interesting opinions so far. I do notice a difference between the two guitars I'm playing. But I'm by no means a tone wizard so I can't say for sure if it is the pickups, the guitars, the amp, or combination of all or some.

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

Yes, a lot. I thought that the bridge pickup on my SG Standard was horrible. The difference with the new one proved it true IMO. Night and day.

 

[taphappy]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

Very small difference, mostly all I can tell is smoother or crunchier. Its really not worth the extra money to buy a pickup, believe me the differences are very small.

 

[MBreinin]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

I use the same model, the Modern High Gain, on my V-Amp Pro for most of my playing..I just love that model. TRUST ME, there is a huge difference in the way my Charvel, which is a tradtional Start style with DiMarzio Virtual Vintage P/Us, sounds in comparison to, let's say, my Agile 2000 with a Hybrid '59/Custom in the bridge and 490R in the neck. Even with the same settings, you can clearly tell that one is much thicker and fatter than the other. I also have a POS Affinity Squier Strat. I put the old HBs in it from the Agile. Totally different tonally from the original singles. My Charvel Predator sounded different with a ToneZone than it does now, with a Blues Saraceno...my San Dimas Bengal sounded different with a Schaller Hot Stuff than it did with the Hybrid. Some of these differences are huge, and some are more subtle. However, they are very clearly there...I can hear the difference between identical guitars with different pickups...which is why I traded the Jazz neck from the Agile for a 490R, I wanted something darker, the Jazz was too bright...also the reason why I went from the Hybrid back to the Hot Stuff in the San Dimas, the Hot Stuff was hotter and that was what I wanted in that guitar...the Hybrid sounds great in the Agile.

ALL I use is this V-Amp Pro. Either with phones, or jacked into the return loop on my Peavey Studio 112...I have become very familiar with it.

Mike

 

[jmh151]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

I had a POD , and one thing I couldn't stand was that I couldn't hear much of a difference when I switched from the neck to bridge pickups on any of my guitars. Similar problem with a Marshall Valvestate. That's when I sold all my POD equipment, pedals, processors, Marshall Valvestate and DSL401, and traded it all in for an old Marshall JCM800.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

NICE!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Love them JCM 800s

 

[MattPete]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

I hear a huge difference with my ToneLab between guitars. Of course, if you crank the gain high enough, everything starts to sound the same, whether it's a modeler or a Soldano.

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

A few years ago i had the older version of the Pod Pro and couldn't hear much of a difference between guitars, if any. I recently had a Pod XT, which I sold, and that was a little better as I could tell the difference between my strats & Les Pauls, but not too much difference from one strat to another etc...

My Vox AD60VTX is a different animal though as is my Vetta II. I can hear the nuances of each pickup and guitar as long as I'm not using a really high gain patch. The more gain, the less clarity between guitars and pickups. That's what it seems like to me.

 

[Artie]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

I thought we just covered this recently. Anyway, I can tell a huge difference between pups with my modeller. In fact, using a good mixer, Crown amp, and Yamaha studio monitors, I can possibly detect minute differences that the "amp" guys can't.

The difference is in the "distortion" dept. Dial in some dirt . . . and they all sound the same. (Almost.)

Artie

 

[Artie]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

The difference is in the "distortion" dept. Dial in some dirt . . . and they all sound the same.

I already have to back-pedal on this a bit. I just dialed in some strong dirt on my modeller, and you could still tell a distinct difference between my C5 and the 59 in my Tele.

 

[Jester700]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

Wow. I'm one of those "skeptics" that can't hear some things people claim to, but this is an obvious one to me. In ALL my modelers - SansAmp PSA-1, V-Amp2, Zoom G2, and Yamaha DG Stomp - there is as much difference between pickup selections in a guitar and between different guitars as there is in my amps. I mean, there is LESS difference in "mondo gain" settings - just like in an amp - but the differences are there.

You guys who hear no difference - are you going from the modeler into an amp or a full range rig? Mine are always through a stereo system or studio rig, so maybe THAT's a possible reason.

 

[St_Genesius]

Re: Do pickups really matter with a modeler?

I hear the same sorts of differences in modellers as I hear in amps when changing between input devices. Now whether a particular model responds to a particular instrument with a particular pickup in exactly the same way as the real-world amp its modelled on...probably not exactly, but the response is still usually predicatble and familiar -- i.e. using a higher gain pup to push the (modelled) pre-amp stage, etc.