Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

[Jeddie]

Been looking...and looking and researching...aaand looking. So I'll just ask, have you used a small as in under 20w tube amp that just sounds great at low volume with a 1x10 or 1x12 as well as a 4x12? Really want something all tube that's small and can be used on a larger scale should it need.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

marshall 18watter.
Vox ac15.
Fender tweed deluxe.
all three of these are all time classic amps that can do what you want.
There are a plethora of others too...these are just the 3 reference tones for many others.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

The short answer is yes. For a more detailed answer we'd need to know what styles and situations you're playing in.

For example you can play metal in your bedroom on a 5W Blackstar and it'll sound pretty good. If you play that same amp through a 4x12 with a band at high volume you might notice the low end getting a bit loose due to lack of headroom.

 

[speed2dirt]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Yea, there's definitely small amps that can sound good at low volumes. However, I think the amp comes to life when you get the speaker to move a little. I have a Randall RM20 with interchangeable preamps and a Bogner Cube 1x12 that can sound as good as it running through my 4x12 at a lower volume, but it sounds best when the speaker just starts to open up with volume. It's still much lower than my 4x12 opening up, but not whisper quiet either. So I think it depends on how good you want it to sound at how quiet of a volume that will ultimately dictate whether a tiny tube amp stacks up.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

I've been really amazed at how different my Tubemeister 18 sounds, going from 1W to 5W to 18W, clean or dirt, bedroom volume, with my 4x12. This might be my first extensive use of power-tube breakup on clean and high-gain tones. I'm thinking the power attenuation on this thing is no joke.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Mic the little rascal if you gotta play out



*(Sent from my durned phone!)*

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

It really depends. A ton of the little tube amps sound fantastic, until I am playing modern metal. The lack of headroom just kills them for me, particularly when played on a 7 string or with real low tunings. There is definitely thump that a larger amp brings that is missing from a small one. It just depends on what you want and need.

 

[Wattage]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

I run an Orange Dual Terror, it kicks a whole lot of butt.

I use it with 4x12, 4x10 and 1x12 cabs with no issues what so ever. I haven't run 2 cabs at the same time, I've had no need to but I can't imagine it being an issue long as you have the ohms right.

I can run it at 7w, 15w or 30w each level has it's own character, I notice it more it the low end which increases as the power increases. It's been absolutely rock solid as well.

 

[Jeddie]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Thanks for all the replies guys! Should surely get me closer to my decision, I appreciate it.

 

[Ascension]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Been looking...and looking and researching...aaand looking. So I'll just ask, have you used a small as in under 20w tube amp that just sounds great at low volume with a 1x10 or 1x12 as well as a 4x12? Really want something all tube that's small and can be used on a larger scale should it need.

My Zinky Blue Velvet sure does! Mine is a little lightweight 1/12 combo that sounds amazing at a whisper yet can fill a large room unmiced.
Clips to prove the point
Here she is in a tiny room with an acoustic player running only a delay at levels that one can easily talk over.

And out doors unmiced pushing a 1/12 cab running nothing but a delay and wah

yet another tiny room super low volume clip

 

[the toad]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

20w is ok for bedroom practice... Don't expect much more tho

I got a 30w and its pretty anemic, even in the bedroom. Got that to replace the 5 watt i got duped into buying cuz I couldn't even hear the dang thing... Like a whisper even fully cranked... Like could hardly hear the amp over the pick noise....

 

[Wattage]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

20w is ok for bedroom practice... Don't expect much more tho

I got a 30w and its pretty anemic, even in the bedroom. Got that to replace the 5 watt i got duped into buying cuz I couldn't even hear the dang thing... Like a whisper even fully cranked... Like could hardly hear the amp over the pick noise....

what kind of amp and cab?

 

[Ascension]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

20w is ok for bedroom practice... Don't expect much more tho

I got a 30w and its pretty anemic, even in the bedroom. Got that to replace the 5 watt i got duped into buying cuz I couldn't even hear the dang thing... Like a whisper even fully cranked... Like could hardly hear the amp over the pick noise....

I have owned and played out 3 low wattage amps and all 3 could get loud as heck!!
25 watt Boogie Subway Rocket, JCA 22H Jet City and the little Zinky. All 3 I have played out with cabs in large rooms with full bands and a loud drummer and had no problem with a lack of power /headroom.
The Jet City on a Blackstar 1/12 loaded with a WGS Retro 30 and the stage volume was LOUD here! Had much more in the amp the sound guy could have cranked the guitar a little more in the FOH but my amp had no problem keeping up on stage!!

 

[the toad]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Pignose 5w

Then got a vox valvetronix vt20+ (30w) still pretty quiet... Granted it's just a stock 8" speaker... I always end up just running it into my PA (120w , 2-12" speakers with horns) and bumping up the volume that way..

I'm looking into buying a 100 watt head currently because I'm tired of having to carry around and set up a PA as well as an amp

 

[dystrust]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Pignose 5w

Then got a vox valvetronix vt20+ (30w) still pretty quiet... Granted it's just a stock 8" speaker... I always end up just running it into my PA (120w , 2-12" speakers with horns) and bumping up the volume that way..

I'm looking into buying a 100 watt head currently because I'm tired of having to carry around and set up a PA as well as an amp

All 'small' amps are not created equal. Both of those amps are solid state; due to output rating & speaker sensitivity you may not be getting what you think you are. First of all, most solid state amps are rated at 4 ohms output impedance. If you Vox's speaker is 8 ohms instead of 4, you'll get roughly 15W out instead of 30; halve that again to 7.5W if it's a 16 ohm speaker.

The bigger deal is sensitivity. For example take the Celestion G12L-35 which was standard equipment in a lot of inexpensive amps like the original Marshall Valvestates and MGs. It has a sensitivity of 95db @ 1W/1m, while a Vintage 30 is rated 100db @ 1W/1m. A difference of 5db doesn't sound like a lot, but the difference between a 50W and 100W amp is only 3 db.

You absolutely do not need a 100W head to be heard; in most cases it'll simply be too loud. For bedroom playing even 5W can be too much with an efficient speaker, while 15-20W is generally plenty when playing with a band.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

Sometimes a little amp screaming is just the thing, but in other situations a big amp breathing heavy sounds better.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

It really depends. A ton of the little tube amps sound fantastic, until I am playing modern metal. The lack of headroom just kills them for me, particularly when played on a 7 string or with real low tunings. There is definitely thump that a larger amp brings that is missing from a small one. It just depends on what you want and need.

Have you tried a Krank Rev Jr.? I've never been a fan of the squishy low-end on EL84 amps, granted I have not tried a Mini Recto or some of the higher-end offerings, but the 6L6's it runs make the low-end sound killer. At loud band volumes through a big 4x12, the low-end may not be as wide, clean, and open as my Peavey XXX, but it's definitely much better than, say, a Tiny Terror or a Jet City for down-tuned palm-mutes with modern high-gain. Turn it down a bit lower than that and it can definitely fool the mic into thinking it's actually a more powerful head than it actually is. Turn it down into loud-ish TV volume kinda levels and it sounds pretty good still. Turn it down into whisper bedroom-levels and it does sound like a beeshive, though.

My Randall RD5 has me covered in that department, though. Through a 10" Greenback, it sounds great at low volumes. Granted it does not sound as satisfying as a loud amp blazing and thumping through a 4x12 for high-gain, but it more than gets the job done at delivering tone that's not completly uninspiring at bedroom levels.

It does have to do with the style of music, though. A 1x10 5 watt amp will just not plain sound as good as a 100-watt half-stack for contemporary aggressive music. I don't know about you, but for me, playing electric guitar in any remotely heavy style of music has always been about being loud and obnoxious to an extent.

 

[the toad]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

I'm gonna start a new thread lol

 

[Diego]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

20w is ok for bedroom practice... Don't expect much more tho

I got a 30w and its pretty anemic, even in the bedroom. Got that to replace the 5 watt i got duped into buying cuz I couldn't even hear the dang thing... Like a whisper even fully cranked... Like could hardly hear the amp over the pick noise....

Something's wrong there, man. My Tweaker's 15 watts and with my 1x12 cab it's ear-splitting loud for a bedroom and adequate for a medium-sized pub on it's own.

I do use a Eminence Wizard which is one of the loudest speakers in the market, but still.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Do tiny tube amps "stack up"?

All 'small' amps are not created equal. Both of those amps are solid state; due to output rating & speaker sensitivity you may not be getting what you think you are. First of all, most solid state amps are rated at 4 ohms output impedance. If you Vox's speaker is 8 ohms instead of 4, you'll get roughly 15W out instead of 30; halve that again to 7.5W if it's a 16 ohm speaker.

The bigger deal is sensitivity. For example take the Celestion G12L-35 which was standard equipment in a lot of inexpensive amps like the original Marshall Valvestates and MGs. It has a sensitivity of 95db @ 1W/1m, while a Vintage 30 is rated 100db @ 1W/1m. A difference of 5db doesn't sound like a lot, but the difference between a 50W and 100W amp is only 3 db.

You absolutely do not need a 100W head to be heard; in most cases it'll simply be too loud. For bedroom playing even 5W can be too much with an efficient speaker, while 15-20W is generally plenty when playing with a band.

That 'small 3dB difference' may not be so small depending on what dB levels we're talking about. The dB scale is logarithmic, so the difference between say, 100 dB and 103 dB is HUGE, while the difference between 60 dB and 63 dB is pretty small.

Also, I'd like to add that power ratings on amps are rated in RMS wattage. For example, a Vox AC30 is rated at 30 watts RMS, so the amp can output 30 watts of power without distorting. If you dime the volume and push the power amp to get power tube breakup, the amp is putting out significantly more than 30 watts. Some amps may be designed to never output more than their RMS rating, so two different amps rated at 30W RMS with the same exact cabinet and maxed-out volume will still differ in volume. Not to mention, there is the issue of perceived volume due to the human hearing range being most sensitive in the midrange (roughly 800 Hz - 3K Hz).