Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

What happens when we play a P90 instead of a “small” single coil?

We go from a low inductance transducer (typically 2 or 3 Henry for Fender) to a high inductance one – roughly 7 Henry for “normal” P90’s.

What does inductance do? It increases the perceived output level… and it lowers the “resonant peak” of the coil in the spectrum, reducing the overall bandwidth of the transducer (by rolling off the high frequencies beyond the resonant peak)…

Why can we feel a P90 as bigger souding than a Fender single coil?

Because its huge inductance makes it louder when it comes to fundamental frequencies. Something like 4 or 5db louder.

We can rise the inductance of a P90 thx to its mags and drag down its resonance even lower in the spectrum : that’s what happens when A5’s are swapped for a lower alnico grade.

Swapping its magnets can also extend the magnetic field of a P90: it gives a larger “reading window” under the strings and it widens the perceived bandwidth.

Now, it doesn’t make absurd the tittle of this topic: IF (and only if) we set a P90 and a Fender SC to produce the same output level, the P90 will actually exhibit a narrower bandwidth because of its (more than twice bigger) inductance.

To obtain the same narrowed sound from a passive SC of the Fender kind, we would have to play it through a very high capacitance cable.

FWIW. :-)

Below is the "crude" response obtained from a P90 vs a Fender Strat pickup through an average cable – and with the same vol/tone pots values. It should illustrate what I try to share.

P90vsStrat.jpg
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

And rolling off the tone does not help to increase the low end at all - it just takes away the top end which was fine to begin with.

That's only partially correct. If all you do is lower the tone control, you are correct.

If you roll off the tone control (slightly) to reduce the highs, then increase the master volume (raise the amp's volume) to where the highs will be at the same vol they were before reducing the tone, then you have effectively increased the mids and lows.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I may be missing the point as I often do. However, I think the answer is get a set of P-Rails. I have a set and they are the best thing since the banana split.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup/p-rails-with-triple-shot-arched-set-black-3

Here is my funky attempt to demonstrate the sound going through: two neck settings; two both settings; and two bridge settings:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzynxzGsN2WZYmNnLVdRSlowX28/view?usp=sharing

These things are definitely not narrow sounding.

Barkeep a round for the house on me.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

It's not too often that I hear a P-90 that sounds "smaller" than a Strat pup, so your complaint throws me for a loop.

But before you spend money on new pups, have you thought about changing mags in your p-90s?

Your P-90s have 2 x A5 mags in each. Changing those to A8 mags will make a world of difference, making the P-90 much beefier/bigger sounding and a bit more output as well. That should make your P-90's demolish you Strat.

A8's might be okay in the bridge but not the neck (Super Mud!)

But even in the bridge, if you're not going for something like metalhead power, I would go the other way and put in two A2's. If that's too smooth, put an A5 back in on the neck side of the pickup.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

It sounds like you're talking about dynamic range. A typical Strat pickup doesn't hit the amp as hard as even a vintage-output P-90. The gives you less usable range on the amp from clean to dirty. What you're hearing is IMO just a difference in compression from the amp. Dial both pickups up to a similar amount of overdrive, by ear, not by amp setting, and you will probably find the Strat pickups similarly compressed, though maybe with a hair more of that Statty top end.

Try running your P-90's with less gain and less bass, and altering your right hand technique to be lighter, if you want them to have a wider range.
 
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Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

My experience with P90's is not the same. I've had a few guitars with them, 2 Gibsons and have a SG that I built with a Lollar. The sound very full to me, fatter than a Strat pickup. I almost want to put them in between the a Tele bridge pickup and a Humbucker, with their girth and snarl of a Tele bridge but the fattness of a Humbucker. One thing I did discover when I had a Gibson SG Classic was the 300k volume pots choked them off a bit. I left the tone pots stock (300k linear) but swapped the volume pots for 500K. Made a big difference. That guitar could keep up in a band setting no problem, whether it was just me playing or both us guitarists. With my SG Jr, same thing. I started off with 500k volume and 500k tone per recommendations but eventually changed the tone to 250k which shaved off just enough highs to fatten it up a little more.

A naturally great sounding Strat at the core (the wood) will sound great no matter what you put in it, IME (I've got one), so I could see where you're coming from too. When I put Texas Specials in my Frankenstrat, it still sounded great and it had Humbuckers in it for years. It has Humbuckers again because I prefer them.

The tone pots in my SG Classic are already 500k (although they are the Gibson-logo CGE pots that are crap IMO), the volumes are 300k linear, did you check the tone pots on yours to see that they are 300k?. At any rate, P90's need 500k volumes at least.
Al
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

The tone pots in my SG Classic are already 500k (although they are the Gibson-logo CGE pots that are crap IMO), the volumes are 300k linear, did you check the tone pots on yours to see that they are 300k?. At any rate, P90's need 500k volumes at least.
Al

Holy Zombie thread....LOL I don't even own the guitar anymore and this was several years ago.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I don't know if 'smaller' is the right word. They do tend to disappear a little more than a traditional single coil or humbucker. They don't quite have the cut of a single, nor the power of a humbucker. I tend to like them with other guitars better (as another voice) rather than stand-alone. I agree, I like the neck P90s better.
I've got a single pickup JR with the stock Gibson P90 in it. That guitar is loud and ballsy as hell. It's brash and HIGH output. There's a perceivable difference in volume when I switch to this guitar. It's the go to guitar when I'm going to be playing lead.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Holy Zombie thread....LOL I don't even own the guitar anymore and this was several years ago.

Well, pgedney came in here and spammed a bunch of older threads with a video link.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Holy Zombie thread....LOL I don't even own the guitar anymore and this was several years ago.

Sorry about that, I sometimes forget to look at the dates on the posts, just look at the ones with new replies, so if someone revives a thread, I may not notice it's old.
Al
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

My experience with P90's is not the same. I've had a few guitars with them, 2 Gibsons and have a SG that I built with a Lollar. The sound very full to me, fatter than a Strat pickup. I almost want to put them in between the a Tele bridge pickup and a Humbucker, with their girth and snarl of a Tele bridge but the fattness of a Humbucker. One thing I did discover when I had a Gibson SG Classic was the 300k volume pots choked them off a bit. I left the tone pots stock (300k linear) but swapped the volume pots for 500K. Made a big difference. That guitar could keep up in a band setting no problem, whether it was just me playing or both us guitarists. With my SG Jr, same thing. I started off with 500k volume and 500k tone per recommendations but eventually changed the tone to 250k which shaved off just enough highs to fatten it up a little more.

A naturally great sounding Strat at the core (the wood) will sound great no matter what you put in it, IME (I've got one), so I could see where you're coming from too. When I put Texas Specials in my Frankenstrat, it still sounded great and it had Humbuckers in it for years. It has Humbuckers again because I prefer them.

I have a lollar in a melody maker and that thing is dirty and nasty under distortion. One of my favorites!
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I have a lollar in a melody maker and that thing is dirty and nasty under distortion. One of my favorites!

Same for me. It's custom wound to 10K with a tap for a vintage-style output. Sounds absolutely amazing. Rather than a push/pull (body too thin for that), I put a slider switch in the rear cavity. I love how it cleans up real nice and sweet but gets real nasty as it's opened up.
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

Same for me. It's custom wound to 10K with a tap for a vintage-style output. Sounds absolutely amazing. Rather than a push/pull (body too thin for that), I put a slider switch in the rear cavity. I love how it cleans up real nice and sweet but gets real nasty as it's opened up.

I haven't played my melody maker in a bit so I restrung it and played around a while.I think that pickup has got to be the most versatile one I own.
Country,blues,surf,doom,metal,rock,clean - it can do it all and sound great doing it!
 
Re: Do you find P90's to sound narrow compared....

I've got a single pickup JR with the stock Gibson P90 in it. That guitar is loud and ballsy as hell. It's brash and HIGH output. There's a perceivable difference in volume when I switch to this guitar. It's the go to guitar when I'm going to be playing lead.

I’ve got a LP Special with the stock p90’s and I’d agree with your assessment. Loud, brash, in your face and dirty as hell.
 
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