do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

[tone?]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

im with ya guys on this one!

i totally agree. just wanted to see everyones opinion on the subject.
There is alot of talk on craftmanship and boutique woods and stuff, but i wanted to see what people thought about how important this all is to having a great sounding guitar.

I mean i bet that you could put 10 andersons in a row and play them all and they wont all sound equally good. sometimes there are those 'magical' ones, cause wood really differs from piece to piece.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

.....
The difference is consistency. You may occaisonally find a $700 guitar that plays amazing and perfect, whereas a high end guitar like Anderson will play perfect out of the box. A $700 guitar with quality hardware, pickups and proper setup and fret dressing may play and sound every bit as good as an Anderson

+1000

In essence, the point is that you can take 10 Andersons, Suhrs, Charvels, whatever, and line them up, and while they will sound different and one or 2 may connect with you better than the others, there won´t usually be a real dog in the batch.

If you do the same thing with 10 Mexico strats, LTDs or whatever, then the chances of finding a dog increase, wheras the chances of finding that same magical quality decrease.

Mostly because of the lower level of quality control,
which = less attention to craftsmanship /detail (in manufacturing you generally don´t try to massively exceed the "standard" because the work is usually for naught),
which = lower consistency,
which = larger spread between good and bad, to the "advantage" of bad.

Like Alec essentially said, even the cheapest of the cheap 50$ strats CAN outplay and "out tone" the most luscious custom axe. But you´ll probably spend the same year that you would spend waiting on the custom searching fotr that 50$ Grail .... and time= money. In other words: You don´t have to.... but if you value your time at a fair going rate, it will probably be cheaper to do so

 

[toneseeker]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

the only thing about bolt-ons is that cheap ones usually have a very big and annoying heal, if you mainly play rhythm you probably wont have a problem, but it can get very tiresome if you want to use it as a "shredder" guitar

I hear that a lot, but i've never had a problem with a bolt on heel. My hands are a little larger than average, I guess, and my thumbs are double jointed, so that probably helps. Set necks are a different story, especially Les Pauls.

Zerb, words of wisdom bro, words of wisdom.

 

[jmh151]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

+1000

In essence, the point is that you can take 10 Andersons, Suhrs, Charvels, whatever, and line them up, and while they will sound different and one or 2 may connect with you better than the others, there won´t usually be a real dog in the batch.

If you do the same thing with 10 Mexico strats, LTDs or whatever, then the chances of finding a dog increase, wheras the chances of finding that same magical quality decrease.

Mostly because of the lower level of quality control,
which = less attention to craftsmanship /detail (in manufacturing you generally don´t try to massively exceed the "standard" because the work is usually for naught),
which = lower consistency,
which = larger spread between good and bad, to the "advantage" of bad.

Like Alec essentially said, even the cheapest of the cheap 50$ strats CAN outplay and "out tone" the most luscious custom axe. But you´ll probably spend the same year that you would spend waiting on the custom searching fotr that 50$ Grail .... and time= money. In other words: You don´t have to.... but if you value your time at a fair going rate, it will probably be cheaper to do so

Zerb's right. I decided to build a parts guitar from the ground up- korina body, flamed maple neck, gold hardware, floyd rose, 59', XL-500 pickups, etc...- the cost of everything was around $1200 once I was through- at that point I'm just a few hundred away from a Suhr, especially when you include the time I spent finishing the thing.

It's over at Rudy's Music in NYC now getting the final fret dress and setup, but when I'm done it will have cost as much as a high end custom shop guitar.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

The downside of finding that magical one amongst the low-end bunch is that it is indeed a time consuming affair. You can go year after year checking out shops every few weeks and playing everything you can get your hands on and go through dog after dog.

The upside is that after doing it awhile you have a definite idea of what it is you like and want in a guitar and what you do not. It makes you a much better educated buyer and you have a much better sense of what will suit you in the long run.

In a sense you're paying either way.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

To find the good cheapies, you just have the ear to know good wood when you hear it, even through lousy pickups.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

To find the good cheapies, you just have the ear to know good wood when you hear it, even through lousy pickups.

Well, sure. But alot of it I think is finding that needle in a haystack.

Billy Gibbons talked about "Pearly" being made on the right day when the wood had been dried for a certain amount of time and the glue was just right and the builder was on his game.......but when a certain well-known luthier was brought in to work on it he found "Pearly" to be, well, less than an optimal instrument overall compared to alot of other 59's he had worked on.

Sometimes we just happen to find an axe that has all the right things were looking for. The difference between "lousy" and "great" can be a fine line. I've played low-end guitars that had pickups I knew to be sub-optimal by reputation and found them to be more than adequate to my ears...maybe it's just the right day for that winder or some other factor. Maybe it's the effect of the mindset of the hot-rodders; I certainly found that once I started playing and listening to more vintage stuff I did ALOT less replacing of pickups and electronics in general. I also started buying with the mindset that I shouldn't HAVE to replace anything for the amount of money I was paying.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

Just look for a used mid to late 80's MIJ Fender Strat...maybe even a Squier. You can find the Made In Japan Squires for around or even under $300. Put some Duncan's in one and you'll have a pro guitar. Some of my favorite Strats in my collection are MIJ Squier Strats. Lew

 

[theodie]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

Just look for a used mid to late 80's MIJ Fender Strat...maybe even a Squier. You can find the Made In Japan Squires for around or even under $300. Put some Duncan's in one and you'll have a pro guitar. Some of my favorite Strats in my collection are MIJ Squier Strats. Lew

+1, those are usually jems! The only thing I dont care for is the 7.25 readius on them. Otherwise, they are knock out guitars for low bucks.

 

[tone?]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

yeah those MIJ strats are great.

i agree with it being tough to find a good lower price guitar as opposed to the higher end stuff. still it can be done.

about this time=money thing. yes this is true but sometimes we CAN save money by going out of our way to do things. and one of these things is to try and find a great cheaper guitar or to build one.

I know this has been done to death but there are certain things maybe some people dont recognize.
I just got done installing ceramic tile on my verandas and i did it cause 1 i enjoy doing work like that and 2 i wanted to save at least 800 bucks to have a pro do it. did i bust my ass doing it? yup. did i save money? of course. no one can tell me i didnt. i spent around 30 hours doing it and i saved 800$

yes my time is worth something, but i dont get paid to sit around, or play guitar or hang out with my wife or do any of the stuff i would have done if i had a pro do it. so i did save 800$

When i put together a guitar or use my time to search for a good lower priced one or search on the net on ebay for endless hours i AM SAVING MONEY cause i dont get paid to do these things. the opportunity cost is small cause i dont get paid for other things than my job.

 

[aleclee]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

When i put together a guitar or use my time to search for a good lower priced one or search on the net on ebay for endless hours i AM SAVING MONEY cause i dont get paid to do these things. the opportunity cost is small cause i dont get paid for other things than my job.

Just because you don't get paid doesn't mean the time is without value.

The opportunity cost in such cases is the value you place upon doing whatever else you'd be doing relative to what you're actually doing. The value of your time laying tile might be different if it meant that you missed some milestone in a loved one's life, the chance to meet your ideal mate, or the opportunity to pursue some other goal. Of course it also depends on how much disposable income (and disposable time) you have to spend on such things.

In the case of laying tile, if you don't mind or even enjoy the task, that makes the opportunity cost much different from the situation where you absolutely hate what you're doing.

I'm definitely not saying that your choice was at all wrong, just that I might disagree with how you value your time.

 

[Whistlepig]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

This is a really good website. There is much experience and knowledge about guitars here I really enjoy this.
I'm not qualified to post on this question but I will add one thing.
If one knows a good friend they can trust and don't have the experience themselves with these guitars like I didn't one can spend thousands on guitars and still be looking.
I like my current one the hp peavey but the big freakin horn or whatever you call it sucks.
I'm going to just get used to it anyway because at least other than that I am pleased especially with the sound and nice neck.

I would say don't spend the dough until you know.
And watch out because everybody KNOWS everything when it comes to these guitars and want to sell one to ya or advise you.
This website though I trust much of what I hear.
Some of the people here know what their talking about seems to me.

 

[Tux789]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

I hear that a lot, but i've never had a problem with a bolt on heel. My hands are a little larger than average, I guess, and my thumbs are double jointed, so that probably helps. Set necks are a different story, especially Les Pauls.

Zerb, words of wisdom bro, words of wisdom.

yeah, with some people its a non-issue. i was just saying that it could be a hugh issue or not and to be mindful of it

 

[tone?]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

Just because you don't get paid doesn't mean the time is without value.

The opportunity cost in such cases is the value you place upon doing whatever else you'd be doing relative to what you're actually doing. The value of your time laying tile might be different if it meant that you missed some milestone in a loved one's life, the chance to meet your ideal mate, or the opportunity to pursue some other goal. Of course it also depends on how much disposable income (and disposable time) you have to spend on such things.

Alright dude, sorry but i am gonna be a bit harsh on this. Really sorry.
I SAVED 800$ OK?? i have an MBA and i am a Certified Project Manager, i KNOW what OPPORTUNITY cost is. In my case i SAVED MONEY. You can sit there if you want and spend 10 grand on a guitar cause sitting around to you costs more than putting your lazy hands on a guitar.
Geepers, why do some people on here have to beat something till its dead? Its my opinion, get it?
I am really kind usually on here, but this has annoyed me too much. I saved money dude. My bank account reads 800$ more, not less. Whats the opportunity cost?? that i didnt hang out and scratch myself for a while. Do i need to sit around and scratch myself sometimes? is it worth something? sure it is man but i still saved 800$ monetary. Get it??

For some people paying 2500$ for a guitar is worth it. you know what? thats great. go for it. It is also good to shop around as some people said. Do i think that EVH is a rip off? yes. i understand the hours that went in working on the instrument dude, but dont try and tell me they arent making a profit.

In the end you are gonna tell me that these poor guitar builders are working so hard to make these 3000$ guitars and they arent even making a profit on them. boo hoo..... next time i go out and buy a 3 grand guitar i will also slip the tech a 500$ tip so he can survive. Give me a break.

just because some people think that paying 3 grand for a bolt on is a rip off doesnt mean that we think that the people putting the work behind the instrument is in vain. yes i totally understand the work and toil that goes into making these things. remember i am a handy man myself.

Remeber guys, that the person which took the guitar world singlehandedly put together his guitar for under 300$ painted it with ****ty bike paint in stripes and chiseled holes in it for the pickup. He also used a quarter to keep the trem in place and decorated the guitar often with burn marks from cigarettes.
HE IS ALSO KNOW FOR HAVING THE BEST TONE EVER IN THE GUITAR WORLD.

The fine print is that this does not take away from great craftmanship such as builders as suhr, anderson, etc... they make incredible instruments, no one is doubting that at all.

If suhr was to hand me one of his guitars i wouldnt say "man this is such a waste, i can put together a guitar that sounds as good for much less"

Its apples and oranges.

cheers!

 

[Mephis]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

so you guys think that to get a awesome sounding guitar you need to pay tons of money?

Nope, eBay is your friend.

As is your local music store. New is not always the best way to go.

 

[jdier]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

Just look for a used mid to late 80's MIJ Fender Strat...maybe even a Squier. You can find the Made In Japan Squires for around or even under $300. Put some Duncan's in one and you'll have a pro guitar. Some of my favorite Strats in my collection are MIJ Squier Strats. Lew

Yeah, I still kick myself for parting out and selling off my MIJ Squire Strat.

$700 buys a great guitar (imo) My ASAT Classic is an incredible playing and sounding guitar with fine craftsmanship. It cost $730 used, shipped to my house.

Some here may go crazy when I say this, but one of my favorite strats right now is a $110 SX strat from Rondo. I think I just got lucky but it has a great body and a neck which is to my liking and the neck pocket is wicked tight. In went the SSL-1's and the thing is sweet.

If I lost all of my guitars and had to buy one really quick I would always bet on a G & L. I have never played the tributes, but used ASATs, ASAT Classics and Legacy's can be had for around $700 and I have never played a dog.

 

[aleclee]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

Alright dude, sorry but i am gonna be a bit harsh on this. Really sorry.
I SAVED 800$ OK?? i have an MBA and i am a Certified Project Manager, i KNOW what OPPORTUNITY cost is. In my case i SAVED MONEY. You can sit there if you want and spend 10 grand on a guitar cause sitting around to you costs more than putting your lazy hands on a guitar.
Geepers, why do some people on here have to beat something till its dead? Its my opinion, get it?

BFD. I have an MBA, too. What's next, are we gonna drop trou to see who's the better man?

All I was pointing out is that there is some intrinsic value in the time you spend "saving money". What that value might be is definitely a personal call but I'm pretty sure it's non-zero.

 

[JeffB]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

My 3 best playing/sounding bolt ons...

YJM strat... $1400 new
Jackson DKMGT $650 new
MIJ Squier Strat (my first strat) $200 new

All 3 rang like a bell and had sustain that would rival the majority of set/neck through guitars. They loud and snappy like a good strat should be. all 3 were very well put together too. No slop in the neck joints or such.

I finally got around to handling some suhrs and a TA, and they are indeed STELLAR instruments...but I just could never bring myself to pay that kind of money for a Strat (especially when ya get those goofy headstocks :laugh2: )

The early to mid 90s USA Schecters I used to drool over IMO were just as well built and played just as nice. I'd try and find one of those if I were in the market for a "pretty" strat.

 

[tone?]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

BFD. I have an MBA, too. What's next, are we gonna drop trou to see who's the better man?

All I was pointing out is that there is some intrinsic value in the time you spend "saving money". What that value might be is definitely a personal call but I'm pretty sure it's non-zero.

Dude, the MBA thing wasnt to show that i am a better man than you. its just that i know what opportunity cost is as well.
I just thought that your analogy to how much my time is worth was a little far fetched. thats cool.
i am trying to save money not VALUE. yes my time has value in it but i am saving money by doing these things.
Like i said man sorry ( i mean that) if i sounded harsh but it seems like this time/money thing has been overdone on here and not properly. Value is a different thing than money.
Anyway,

congrads to both of us on our education. Now we can drop our pants. LOL!

 

[JeffB]

Re: do you have to pay big bucks to get a great sounding bolt on guitar?

Now we can drop our pants. LOL!

I'm sure you'll understand why I won't be revisiting this thread again?



:chairfall